Episode 18
The Truth About Pain: NFL Sports Therapist Matt Meyer's Revolutionary Approach
Matt Meyer takes center stage in a discussion that explores the intersection of physical therapy and mental well-being, emphasizing the often-ignored aspects of emotional health in athletic performance. With 15 years of experience working with elite athletes from the Buffalo Bills and Buffalo Bandits, Matt delves into the complexities of imposter syndrome—a common struggle among high performers who often feel they do not deserve their success. This episode sheds light on how the pressures of competition can lead to anxiety and self-doubt, ultimately affecting performance and recovery. Through personal anecdotes and professional insights, Matt illustrates the necessity of addressing mental health alongside physical rehabilitation, advocating for a more holistic approach to therapy that recognizes the mind-body connection.
Matt is a seasoned sports therapist, shares invaluable insights into the intersection of physical health and mental well-being in high-performance athletes. He emphasizes that many athletes struggle with imposter syndrome and the emotional challenges that accompany their careers, often neglecting the importance of mental health support. Through his holistic approach, which includes techniques like craniosacral therapy and story work, he helps clients navigate their healing journeys, addressing both physical injuries and underlying psychological issues. Matt discusses the significance of creating a supportive environment, including the necessity of community and connection in overcoming feelings of isolation after leaving competitive sports. With a passion for lifelong learning and personal growth, he encourages listeners to prioritize self-care, mindfulness, and open dialogue about their experiences.
Matt Meyer works with the NFL's Buffalo Bills as well as professional lacrosse team the Buffalo Bandits. He is the owner of Revive Performance and Health in Buffalo, where he runs his own clinic as a sports therapist which is somewhere between sports medicine, massage therapist, movement expert, mindset coach, and more.
Matt applies MANY different modalities from his plethora of certifications, giving him too many letters after his name to fit on a business card. He also has a bachelor's degree in health sciences and has studied at the Chek Institute from the renowned holistic health expert Paul Chek. His current practice brings in referrals not only from the NFL, MLB, and NHL but also the top medical facilities in the area.
He is also passionate about philosophy, spirituality, plant medicine, movement, healing, and much more which he talks about on his podcast the Curious Buffalo. Check him out!
In this episode we talked about the power of words to heal or hurt, how to integrate many different modalities, facing imposter syndrome as he created his own career, working with pros, the current medical model vs. his practice, and more!
The dialogue seamlessly transitions to the topic of community support and the importance of connection for athletes and veterans alike. Drawing parallels between their experiences, Matt discusses how the transition from a structured environment to civilian life can be jarring, leading to feelings of isolation. He highlights the lack of rites of passage in modern society, particularly for young men, and the potential consequences of this absence. Through his work and personal journey, Matt champions practices such as flotation therapy and mindfulness as essential tools for fostering self-awareness and emotional healing. The conversation also touches on the significance of language and narrative in shaping one’s mindset, introducing the enlifted method as a means to empower individuals to rewrite their stories and reclaim their identities.
Throughout the episode, listeners are encouraged to reflect on their own health journeys and consider the impact of self-talk and community on their well-being. Matt emphasizes that improvement is a gradual process that begins with small, intentional changes, and he offers practical advice on incorporating holistic practices into everyday life. With a focus on the importance of balance, self-care, and vulnerability, this episode serves as an inspiring reminder that everyone, regardless of their profession, can benefit from prioritizing their mental and emotional health. Ultimately, Matt’s insights encourage a shift towards a more compassionate and integrated approach to personal wellness, highlighting the need for ongoing support and understanding in the journey to healing.
Takeaways:
- Imposter syndrome is a common experience among high performers and athletes alike.
- Finding balance in life is crucial for maintaining mental health and well-being.
- Integrating mindset work into physical therapy can enhance recovery and performance outcomes.
- Emotional and spiritual well-being often gets overlooked in high-performance sports culture.
- Establishing a supportive community is essential for athletes transitioning out of their sports.
- Practicing self-care and mindfulness can help mitigate feelings of burnout and overwhelm.
Transcript
You can never eliminate the imposter syndrome.
Matt Meyer:It's always going to be there.
Matt Meyer:It's just a manageable thing.
Matt Meyer:I think it's human to always think like, man, I could be doing better.
Todd:Athletes will actually fear doing that work because it's like, well, you're going to get rid of the chip on my shoulder.
Matt Meyer:Or the person may say, what the fuck am I doing?
Matt Meyer:I had always thought like, yep, I want to work for a professional sports team full time and that's going to be my thing.
Matt Meyer:And then I started to realize maybe that's not quite what I want to do.
Matt Meyer:I'm literally just helping them cut through all of the self talk for their story.
Matt Meyer:And the results are, I mean, the results are amazing.
Matt Meyer:If you don't do something that you love, no matter what that is, I don't care if it's an accounting or owning a spa, you will burn out of.
Matt Meyer:The people around you will usually suffer first.
Todd:Alright.
Todd:Welcome to the evolving potential podcast.
Todd:This is episode number 18.
Todd:Today I have on the show Matt Meyer.
Todd:Matt is the owner of Revive performance and health in New York where he works with professional lacrosse team the Buffalo Bandits, as well as the NFL's Buffalo Bills and many more athletes.
Todd:As a sports therapist, he applies many different tools to help people move and perform better, as well as bring them back to a holistically healthy place.
Todd:Matt has so many letters behind his name that it can't fit on his business, Cardinal.
Todd:So I'm going to let him discuss some of those, like corrective exercise, massage, neuromuscular therapy and more.
Todd:He also has a bachelor's in health sciences and has studied at the Czech Institute under the renowned holistic health expert Paul Cech.
Todd:His current practice brings in referrals from top medical practitioners, the NFL, NHL, MLB and more.
Todd:And on the side, he hosts the Curious Buffalo podcast where he loves to talk about performance, health, philosophy, spirituality, and perhaps even some psychedelics.
Todd:So welcome, Matt.
Todd:How you doing?
Matt Meyer:That's a great intro, Todd.
Matt Meyer:Thank you.
Todd:Absolutely, man.
Todd:It's my pleasure.
Todd:That's one of my favorite parts about doing this whole thing.
Matt Meyer:No, it's a.
Matt Meyer:It's a pleasure to meet with you.
Matt Meyer:And, you know, we got connected from our good buddy Mark, who is always a trip and one of my mentors.
Matt Meyer:So I.
Matt Meyer:All of his connections are always spot on.
Todd:Yeah, it's been really cool.
Todd:It's been really cool.
Todd:Mark gave me, I think, three or four guests to interview and I think you're the last one of the four that he gave me.
Todd:And they've all just been, you guys have all just been amazing, and, like, the whole enlisted method is really cool, but it's cool to see how you guys all use that enlifted method or the story work in different lines of work.
Todd:So it's kind of cool to have these different conversations.
Todd:So I'm curious, first of all, you can go ahead if you have something to say.
Matt Meyer:Oh, no, go ahead.
Matt Meyer:Go ahead.
Todd:So I'm curious, first of all, where.
Todd:What is sports, a sports therapist, like, if you can explain that in your own words, because I know you kind of created that thing yourself.
Matt Meyer:Yeah.
Matt Meyer:So it's interesting.
Matt Meyer:So, in the United States, there is no designation as sports therapist.
Matt Meyer:There's physical therapists, there's athletic trainers.
Matt Meyer:There's all these different designations.
Matt Meyer:So when I had started down the path of getting into this field, I was already a little bit later into my twenties, and I had previously was living a life of.
Matt Meyer:I was studying philosophy and running nightclub security at different nightclubs and bars.
Matt Meyer:So it was an interesting path, although I always had this, like, feel as a martial artist for the healing arts.
Matt Meyer:So by the time I kind of figured out what I really wanted to do with my life, I was already late twenties, and I had moved from Florida back to New York, and I started really researching ways that I could start working.
Matt Meyer:At the time, really with athletes was my goal.
Matt Meyer:And I had some really great mentors, and I was thinking about chiropractic school, and I was thinking about physical therapy school and all these things.
Matt Meyer:And I had one of my mentors at the time living in Buffalo.
Matt Meyer:We're about two and a half hours away from Toronto, so Toronto is a mecca of really everything.
Matt Meyer:But there was a workshop up there, and one of my mentors said, I was just enrolled in massage therapy school to try to start my path somehow.
Matt Meyer:And he said to me, you need to go up there to Toronto and do this seminar.
Matt Meyer:I want you to see how they do it up there.
Matt Meyer:And at the time, really what that meant was it was a very progressive field in Canada, and in Toronto, especially, the strength coaches, the physical therapists, the doctors, nutritionists, they all worked really well together.
Matt Meyer:And that's something that I noticed in Buffalo, which is kind of a little.
Matt Meyer:A little big town.
Matt Meyer:There was all this separation, and it was like the pts, the Cairos and this and the personal trainers, like, they weren't coordinating.
Matt Meyer:So when I went up to Toronto, I just had this huge epiphany, and it was like all of these programs working together, and that's when I got to see Paul Chuck speak, and I came back with just, you know, the light bulbs going off, and I kind of figured, I said, what if I piece together the things that I think are really important for working with humans or athletes?
Matt Meyer:So the ability to do hands on manual therapy.
Matt Meyer:So checking that box.
Matt Meyer:Massage therapy.
Matt Meyer:Right.
Matt Meyer:That the license to touch, and then it's like the movement piece of it.
Matt Meyer:And that was an interesting, that's an interesting part because there's really no regulations and licenses based on strength coaches and personal trainers.
Matt Meyer:And even at the time.
Matt Meyer: This is: Matt Meyer: This is: Matt Meyer:I mean, there was so much out there now it's even tenfold.
Matt Meyer:So seeing Paul, check and see how he worked, which is combining assessment and all these different movement, these movement practices along with hands on therapy, I kind of used it as my template.
Matt Meyer:So I enrolled in a bunch of different.
Matt Meyer:I maxed out all my student loans, and I just started taking all of these CE courses because I had also realized that traditional school is important, but you're really.
Matt Meyer:It's like graduating from kindergarten, right?
Matt Meyer:I realized where all the learning was really taking place was, number one, mentorship, finding a mentor, and then two was in the world of continuing education, because that's where you really got to the crux of these specialized therapies.
Matt Meyer:So I just went on a massive tour of taking in, consuming all the courses I could take with my goal being, all right, how can I open up a practice?
Matt Meyer:And I can, you know, I can be licensed, I can be educated.
Matt Meyer:And I started doing some research on how they did some of the sports therapy in Europe, and they have a sports therapy designation in Europe, actually.
Matt Meyer:So I actually kind of used that as a template to build my own practice in a way.
Matt Meyer:So sports therapy in the US, there's really no designation, but that's what I call myself because of all the other letters and things after my name just said, which is kind of a funny joke.
Matt Meyer:And so that's where I started.
Matt Meyer:There was a lot of friction at first, and I had sought out some great mentors in the field.
Matt Meyer:What I ended up doing was helping almost bridge the gap, bridging the gap of, you know, my practice was also.
Matt Meyer:I really lived by this creed of, if you come in to see me and I can't help you, my number one objective as a therapist, as a human, is to find somebody that can.
Matt Meyer:So I started building a really large rolodex of other therapists, practitioners, physical therapist, anybody.
Matt Meyer:I could get acupuncturists.
Matt Meyer:So I was referring a lot of people to these other practitioners, and the downstream effect of that is they would refer patients to me.
Matt Meyer:And very often it would be like, Matt, we're not even sure what you do, but it works.
Matt Meyer:So here.
Matt Meyer:And so I built my practice really, really clawing and scratching.
Matt Meyer:I opened up a practice in a big health club.
Matt Meyer:So I had a treatment room, and I had access to the gym.
Matt Meyer:And then I started, you know, literally sending in letters to local professional sports teams.
Matt Meyer:Sending in letters.
Matt Meyer:One time I pretended to be a vendor on the phone so I could get somebody in touch with a professional team to actually.
Matt Meyer:Because it's almost impossible if you.
Matt Meyer:If you were like, hey, you know, I'd like to call up the.
Matt Meyer:Anybody, the equipment manager for the, you know, for the professional hockey team.
Matt Meyer:You'll never get them.
Matt Meyer:It's almost impossible.
Matt Meyer:You probably get to call the president easier.
Matt Meyer:They're very, like, secured out.
Matt Meyer:So I pretended to be a vendor and ended up getting somebody on the phone and ended up being a big no.
Matt Meyer:But I was like, all right, I'm making progress.
Todd:Yeah.
Matt Meyer:For a few years, I've gotten in with a professional lacrosse team by literally chance.
Matt Meyer:I was standing in line at a coffee shop, and I saw the athletic trainer with their shirt on doing notes in training camp.
Matt Meyer:And I just introduced myself and, you know, and said, hey, this is what I do.
Matt Meyer:And, you know, that kind of started a nice career.
Matt Meyer:So it's been about 15 years I've been working with professional athletes.
Matt Meyer:I also have a private studio.
Matt Meyer:So in my private studio where I'm at now, I work with all different kinds of people, and I've almost gotten out of the, you know, I work with athletes because I work with humans.
Matt Meyer:You know, I have kids that I work with that are seven and eight.
Matt Meyer:I've had 88 year olds that I can apply these principles to.
Matt Meyer:And the principles are really, you know, assess how people are moving, take a look at what injuries or traumas they have, and then use all different types of hands on inputs, movement inputs that could be mobility, that could be strength conditioning, it could be stretching and to help them get better.
Matt Meyer:The last piece of that, which I knew I needed to integrate somehow, but I wasn't sure, was this the mindset piece, right.
Matt Meyer:And I had done meditation, all these different things, and a few years back, I had ran into one of Mark Englund's podcast, who's one of the co founders of the enlifted method.
Matt Meyer:And as soon as I heard that in what the enlifted method is, I was like, that checks the box.
Matt Meyer:That's a way that I can start to integrate the mindset piece in to what I do to be, I think, what's really, truly, you know, holistic.
Matt Meyer:The word gets thrown a lot around a lot, but that's really what it is.
Matt Meyer:Being able to give people tools to say, you know, we need to work on your breathing.
Matt Meyer:We need to work on your, you know, your flexion, your spine flexion.
Matt Meyer:We need to clear, you know, adhesions in your back.
Matt Meyer:It doesn't really matter what it is.
Matt Meyer:Now I have these tools that I can help apply for anybody that I see, athlete or not athlete.
Todd:So were you seeing mindset issues in your.
Todd:In your clients, if you will, or, you know, maybe opportunities where you could.
Matt Meyer:Yeah.
Todd:Give someone a enhanced mindset towards their recovery or whatever?
Matt Meyer:Yeah.
Matt Meyer:And it was.
Matt Meyer:It was actually a lot.
Matt Meyer:It was.
Matt Meyer:It was a lot simpler, but more actually complex.
Matt Meyer:The.
Matt Meyer:The first place I really noticed it was with dealing with people that had pain.
Matt Meyer:I had also, actually, through experience, was, um, my wife, who's my girlfriend at the time, we were up in Canada, and we were in a car accident, and she developed this basically, like, a really nasty whiplash.
Matt Meyer:So going through the process of helping her with that and finding some other practitioners, I got connected to neurosurgery practice here in town, the biggest one.
Matt Meyer:And I started working with some of their doctors, and what I realized, so I would send mostly people that were in car accidents, and a lot of times, especially if they're acute, you can't.
Matt Meyer:There's not a lot of work you can do.
Matt Meyer:It's very minimal.
Matt Meyer:And I was seeing over and over these loops of chronic pain that had a lot to do with mindset.
Matt Meyer:I'm injured.
Matt Meyer:I'm in pain.
Matt Meyer:I've had trauma.
Matt Meyer:And I started thinking to myself, there's a connection, and there's a lot of really other.
Matt Meyer:There's a lot of cool programs out there.
Matt Meyer:There's things like explain pain.
Matt Meyer:Some physiotherapists from New Zealand, so they were talking about this, but some of it was complex and a story that actually really made me take responsibility for my words.
Matt Meyer:And this is where the enlifted method came in.
Matt Meyer:I was in a facility, and I was working with a football player who had had a low back injury.
Matt Meyer:And I was out in the hallway talking with a couple other people, and the young man walked by, and I turned and said, hey, how's your back pain?
Matt Meyer:And I saw him go from walking like this to he was like, oh, well, it's okay.
Matt Meyer:And immediately, I was like, did I just trigger his back pain?
Matt Meyer:Because I said pain.
Matt Meyer:And that's when I really was like, okay.
Matt Meyer:If I want to really take on the role of holistic therapist, I need to personally to make sure that I'm using the correct words.
Matt Meyer:When people come in, and I started paying attention to myself.
Matt Meyer:And if I had somebody that came in that was in.
Matt Meyer:That was in, you know, pain.
Matt Meyer:I was saying the words a dozen times or more.
Matt Meyer:How's your pain?
Matt Meyer:What's your pain like?
Matt Meyer:Oh, here's a pain scale.
Matt Meyer:Rate your pain.
Matt Meyer:And I'm thinking to myself, what if I started just changing the language?
Matt Meyer:So first I started just really being conscious of my words and trying not to keep using those triggering words, and it made a difference.
Matt Meyer:And then the enlifted method came in, and I really realized how important words were and how they trigger emotions.
Matt Meyer:And even in the training with Paul Chuck that we did, there's these six modifiable factors, which has been kind of the groundwork of my work.
Matt Meyer:It's the things that you can modify that's like low hanging fruit, right?
Matt Meyer:Sleep, hydration, movement, food, thoughts and words.
Matt Meyer:So you think about, if you're driving down the street and you go past your favorite restaurant and you smell the food cooking, it triggers a physiological response, right?
Matt Meyer:Thoughts.
Matt Meyer:Do you know, nostalgia is our thoughts, good and bad?
Matt Meyer:So that was so eye opening to me, realizing that if I can change my words in language and then I can teach my client.
Matt Meyer:I don't like to use the word patients anymore, because if client is a relationship we're building together, we're doing work.
Matt Meyer:I'm not doing something to you as a patient.
Matt Meyer:I thought, this is invaluable, and this is powerful.
Matt Meyer:The first thing I switch was when a person would come in and they would say, oh, you know, I'm injured.
Matt Meyer:I would say, all right, you're no longer injured.
Matt Meyer:And I'd have them write this down, because writing the word down is very important.
Matt Meyer:I'm currently healing.
Todd:Nice, right?
Matt Meyer:Currently healing.
Matt Meyer:Just little changes, little.
Matt Meyer:Little tweaks.
Matt Meyer:So that kind of brought me to really doing this work, which is really important to me.
Matt Meyer:So now, wrapping it all into sessions and doing some of the work on its own has been very important.
Todd:So when you're trying to sell yourself to, you know, any of these professional teams back in the day.
Todd:Yeah, what.
Todd:I guess, what gap were you trying to fit into?
Todd:Or what role would they kind of, like, code you as if you will?
Todd:You know what I mean?
Todd:Like, are you an athletic trainer, sports medicine, massage therapist, like, I guess.
Todd:How are you feeling that a little.
Matt Meyer:Bit of all those, really what my goal was is how can I support the staff?
Matt Meyer:And, you know, in the world of professional sports, they have the athletic trainers really run the show, and they are some of the hardest working people I've ever worked with, but they're also bogged down by doing so many things.
Matt Meyer:So really what my goal was like, how can I just plug in and help if a player needed hands on work, if they needed to do some mobility work, if they needed things like that?
Matt Meyer:I just really wanted to kind of fit that gap.
Matt Meyer:I specifically took a job at a very renowned sports medicine clinic in the area, so I could really understand the lingo in the work dealing with acute care, knee replacements, sports injuries.
Matt Meyer:And the goal was really there so I could speak the language.
Matt Meyer:So there was a value added that they would be able to trust me if they said, hey, I have this person and they have this, the work that I do would fit in well because it's always for, you know, is do no harm first.
Matt Meyer:Do no harm, ask lots of questions.
Matt Meyer:That's my, you know, that's really important and it's appreciated.
Todd:So as you're doing this work, then, how are you able to tell what's within your wheelhouse and what's nothing?
Todd:That's because you said you were willing to refer out.
Todd:So with such a wider range of skills, how do you know what's in your wheelhouse and what I'm now going to go ahead and refer away?
Matt Meyer:Typically, it's results driven to, and unless there's a very, like, severe case of something where somebody needs to get, like, a specific referral to, you know, a surgeon or something, which happens very.
Matt Meyer:Doesn't happen frequently, but it does.
Matt Meyer:It's really like, I'll usually tell people, look, let's work together for four sessions.
Matt Meyer:So the other thing that's, that I do is I don't participate in any insurance.
Matt Meyer:Everything that I do is quote unquote cash base.
Todd:Nice.
Matt Meyer:So when I'm with my, and I have no other people, it's me that's the only person that's here.
Matt Meyer:So when I spend an hour with somebody, I've already broken out of the typical medical mile.
Matt Meyer:You know, when you go to a typical, like our insurance based physical therapist, chiropractor, things like that, they've unfortunately been kind of funneled into almost the way allopathic medicine is now, where if you go to your GP, you know, they're seeing seven patients now, you know, it's about an average of six minutes you'll see your physician for, and some of that could be even a PA or a nurse practitioner.
Matt Meyer:So I'm spending, I'm listening.
Matt Meyer:I'm doing a lot of listening, asking a lot of questions and really taking my time with folks.
Matt Meyer:And what I'll usually say is, let's do four sessions together.
Matt Meyer:Let's work for four weeks.
Matt Meyer:I'm going to give you this homework.
Matt Meyer:It's very important because that's the other factor is sometimes people just like to come in to go to therapy two or three times a week, you know, have therapy done to them instead of participating in it.
Matt Meyer:And I'm very upfront.
Matt Meyer:I said, listen, if you do these few exercises, you should have improvement by next week when we see.
Matt Meyer:So if they don't hit that mark where after three or four sessions they're improving, or of course, if they're, if they're, if they're going backwards, that's when I refer out.
Matt Meyer:And I'll, you know, I'll call also, too.
Matt Meyer:I'm, I'm very grateful because I have, you know, personal relationships with these doctors and therapists, and I can call and say, hey, I want you to see so and so, you know, I did this.
Matt Meyer:They're coming with that.
Matt Meyer:Let's get them in.
Matt Meyer:Let's get your eyes on it.
Matt Meyer:And sometimes they'll kick him back to me after, you know, a few weeks and say, hey, everything's on, everything looks good.
Matt Meyer:Do what you're doing.
Matt Meyer:Or sometimes I don't see him again, but they do get better because I always try to check in with people in my, you know, and I'll say, I'll say this jokingly with some of my clients.
Matt Meyer:I say, if I never see you again, that's a good thing.
Matt Meyer:I said, that means that you're, you're better, you know, and then hopefully I'll grocery store at the park or something and, you know, we can see that, which maybe isn't the best business model, but it works, right?
Todd:I love, I love that idea.
Todd:I love, there's, I heard something about the doctors in the east, how they would only get paid when their clients were healthy.
Todd:It was a reverse model.
Todd:And I was like, that's so funny.
Todd:You stop getting paid when your client gets sick.
Matt Meyer:That model has been, unfortunately, we're in a sick care model.
Todd:Yeah.
Matt Meyer:We're in a state and it's disease based, it's pharmacology based.
Matt Meyer:And there's a need for that sometimes.
Matt Meyer:But typically, if you go to your physician or surgeon, there's two options.
Matt Meyer:There's surgery or meds.
Matt Meyer:And for some people that works.
Matt Meyer:For some people it doesn't.
Matt Meyer:And I'm seeing a shift towards people getting very frustrated with the medical model.
Matt Meyer:Even practitioners that I know that have been in the insurance model, amazing therapists, physical therapists, chiropractors, all these things, they're starting to kind of deport into private practice now for that reason, because they're getting strangled by the insurance companies.
Matt Meyer:They're spending less and less time with their patients.
Matt Meyer:I really think that conventional medicine, insurance model is stripping the art of medicine.
Matt Meyer:And if you're a physician, if you're a therapist, there's a certain art that you have become proficient in.
Matt Meyer:And the less time we can spend with patients, the more paperwork that comes with it, we start to lose some of that art.
Matt Meyer:The hands on feel, the questions, asking the right questions, listening time doesn't allow for those things.
Matt Meyer:And I think that's a, I know that's a big issue.
Todd:Yeah.
Todd:Yeah, that's huge.
Todd:And then, like, along the lines of, like, surgery or meds, and it kind of ties into your work is like, I used to do corrective exercise as well when I was a personal trainer.
Todd:And I know that, like, rotator cuff injuries and knee injuries, you know, common.
Todd:And then you're going to understand like, the kinetic chain.
Todd:And so it's like if you have weakness in your glutes, if you have, you know, lack of mobility in your ankle, like, there's going to lead to these, these things happening.
Todd:And then I've talked to people that have had, like, rotator cuff surgeries and they've never heard any of this stuff.
Todd:They have no idea about, like, oh, I could have done this corrective exercise and, oh, because I'm like, moving forward, you know, my shoulders constantly as I continue to go throughout life, like, I'm putting my shoulder in a disadvantage.
Todd:And that's why my rotator cuff is all messed up.
Todd:Like, they literally don't know.
Todd:And it blows my mind.
Todd:And same thing with, like, guys and knee replacements.
Todd:People are getting knee replacements, hip replacements, shoulder replacements, shoulder surgeries, rotator cuff repairs, and they don't know what they could be doing to prevent this.
Todd:So if you could talk about that, that'd be amazing.
Matt Meyer:Yeah.
Matt Meyer:I mean, at one time, and I don't know if this is current, but in, you know, so I'm in western New York, Buffalo specifically, we had the most spine surgeries per capita in the United States.
Matt Meyer:What?
Matt Meyer:And not, like, again, not saying that there isn't a need.
Matt Meyer:I've had to refer some people because they had, they needed surgery, and the surgery helped.
Matt Meyer:However, teaching movement and lifestyle things and posture, those things have become very rare in that field.
Matt Meyer:And a lot of the ailments that are coming on today with overuse could be alleviated just from moving, better moving at all, you know, going up, you know, getting up and walking.
Matt Meyer:It's shocking to see.
Matt Meyer:I'll have people that, you know, had a surgery.
Matt Meyer:And very often I kind of work in this, like, post rehab zone, wherever people will have, you know, either surgery or a consult with the surgeon.
Matt Meyer:They go to therapy.
Matt Meyer:They go to physical therapy.
Matt Meyer:They finish their eight sessions, because we know eight sessions of physical therapy fixes everything.
Matt Meyer:Insurance runs out, and they'll send them to me.
Matt Meyer:And a lot of times I'm reeducating them.
Matt Meyer:I'm teaching them how to move, and I'm teaching them to lift, to lift weights.
Matt Meyer:And that's something they don't get in a lot of therapy, you know, in a lot of physical therapy clinics, not all, but, you know, the.
Matt Meyer:The weights go up to, like, 30 pounds.
Matt Meyer:It's kind of like a joke.
Matt Meyer:And life dictates they need more, especially if the person's a landscaper or an athlete or, you know, a mom that has three kids and has got to carry grocery bags and a cart and two kids.
Matt Meyer:And so my goal is really, is that, is that functional piece, like, what do you do for, what do you do for your exercise?
Matt Meyer:What do you do in your daily life?
Matt Meyer:Like, are you up and down a lot?
Matt Meyer:Like, are you carrying things?
Matt Meyer:And then I can really tailor something to specifically for them to help that.
Matt Meyer:And that also makes a big difference.
Matt Meyer:I had had a woman who was a researcher, and she was a researcher.
Matt Meyer:She was 80 years old.
Matt Meyer:She'd never, she basically spent her time for 40 years teaching and looking at a microscope, and she'd come to me and said, I'm retired.
Matt Meyer:I want to travel the world.
Matt Meyer:I want to see my grandkids.
Matt Meyer:And I worked with her for about five years, and she was traveling, and she texted me from somewhere.
Matt Meyer:She was out in the west coast seeing her daughter.
Matt Meyer:And she said that she was able to take her carry on bag and put it up in the overhead bed, which would have been, she said, when she was 60, would have been almost impossible.
Matt Meyer:So those, to me, are those real, like, functional carryovers that are a huge win.
Matt Meyer:And like I said, in traditional medicine, in conventional medicine, allopathic medicine, there's some of that is lost in translation.
Matt Meyer:And if it can't be fixed via surgery, if it can't be fixed, you know, with pharmaceutical interventions, a lot of times they just, they don't, they kind of leave them hanging, and that's, that's a struggle.
Matt Meyer:But it also is a, you know, it's an opportunity for me to help.
Matt Meyer:And that's, you know, that's really my life.
Matt Meyer:That's what I do is help people, help humans, help humans be better humans.
Matt Meyer:You know, that's, that's simple but really important.
Todd:That's a perfect segue, because I'm curious about a couple of the different therapies that you do provide.
Todd:Like, you know, something that people might not know of, a neuromuscular therapy or like the craniosacral therapy.
Todd:And so I'm curious, you know, if you could just, in your own words, lay out some of those things that you do as well as how your work is kind of missing in the mainstream.
Todd:Like, what, what are you doing?
Todd:That's kind of the fill in the gap of what's missing.
Todd:Yeah.
Matt Meyer:So how have you found it to be missing even in the world of therapy?
Matt Meyer:You know, just like the, there's hundreds of different types of exercise modalities.
Matt Meyer:The spine, for instance, there's the McKenzie method.
Matt Meyer:There's all these different ways to strengthen the spine, and they all have some benefit.
Matt Meyer:It just depends on the person.
Matt Meyer:When it comes to the hands on therapies, I started off learning very aggressive soft tissue therapies because I thought, all right, I'm going to be working with these athletes.
Matt Meyer:So they need a intense tissue therapy.
Matt Meyer:So things like active release technique and grasping, which these are all manual therapy techniques, and they are important.
Matt Meyer:But what I also realized is that the body can be very sensitive at times, and the nervous system is sensitive.
Matt Meyer:And there's craniosacral therapy, which was developed by an osteopath doctor, appalachia.
Matt Meyer:It's very, very light touch, like 5 grams, which is the weight of a nickel.
Matt Meyer:And what Doctor upleischer realized is that the body has three pulses.
Matt Meyer:The body has a respiratory pulse.
Matt Meyer:It has a pulmonary pulse.
Matt Meyer:So, you know, your breathing, your cardiac pulse, but there's also a pulse of the cerebral spinal fluid that pulses the ventricles in the brain, runs down the spine.
Matt Meyer:So his program, which was first really talked to, like, osteopaths and then kind of spilled out and be able to work with therapists and body workers.
Matt Meyer:So cranial sacral therapy is very deep work with very light touch, which is wonderful.
Matt Meyer:It has really great interventions for whiplash things where people are, you know, very splinted and tonic.
Matt Meyer:I can do some cranial sacral therapy inputs that get the nervous system to relax.
Matt Meyer:It also worked great for concussions.
Matt Meyer:And so in the field of sports, tons of concussions.
Matt Meyer:So it's a great segue into working with athletes, with some of the other therapies that they're getting, different types of stretching techniques.
Matt Meyer:I mean, are wonderful mobilizations.
Matt Meyer:It's really about getting the body to go back to its natural movement, which we lose.
Matt Meyer:And if you have an injury or if maybe you've worked at a desk job for ten years, we get stuck in these patterns.
Matt Meyer:So what I find personally is before I teach somebody how to move and maybe how to work on their hip rotation, if I can physically manually work on them while they're focused on their breathing and relaxing, they can start to feel how their body's supposed to move.
Matt Meyer:So, you know, typically my sessions, after I do an assessment of, see how they're moving, I'll do some hands on work and I'll work with them and I'll say, all right, this is how your hips are supposed to move.
Matt Meyer:And it's easy because they're on the table, they're relaxed.
Matt Meyer:And then I'll take them out and I'll say, all right, now we're going to do this as more of an energized exercise.
Matt Meyer:You're going to try to get the same range of motion in your hips, and this is going to be part of your own work.
Matt Meyer:So it's teaching.
Matt Meyer:It's letting them feel the movement and then letting them do it on their own.
Matt Meyer:So that's, to me, where a lot of the manual therapy comes in, is letting their bodies feel how it should move, moving their neck in a way that should move.
Matt Meyer:And if someone has been in a car accident and they're really splinted, a lot of times I can get them into positions gently that they wouldn't be able to do, or their brain was saying, don't do that.
Matt Meyer:They're, you know, quote unquote afraid to do.
Matt Meyer:So it's all part of the process of getting the body to come back to normal.
Matt Meyer:And whether it be a hands on technique, whether it be a breathing technique, whether it be a mobility technique, that's kind of the hierarchy.
Matt Meyer:And then at the end to me is the strength training part.
Matt Meyer:It's like we want to create as much healthy tissue as we can.
Matt Meyer:So different types of soft tissue therapies.
Matt Meyer:Cranial sacral stretching, then mobility, and then the strength piece, that component, the last piece.
Matt Meyer:And that's kind of the, that's kind of the finishing piece of it.
Todd:That's crazy.
Todd:So this, I'm super curious about this craniosacral therapy now, because I've heard of network chiropractic.
Todd:Is that, is that similar?
Todd:Have you heard of this from Donny Epstein?
Matt Meyer:The name sounds familiar.
Matt Meyer:It could be.
Matt Meyer:And the other thing that happens in, in this world a lot is which, there's, the nomenclature is not transferred over.
Matt Meyer:So what I might be doing and calling it a, another practitioner might be doing the same thing, but calling it something else.
Todd:Yeah.
Todd:Well, seems, it seems to me like it's like a level below, above.
Todd:I'm not really sure how to explain it, I guess, but it's like they don't touch you at all.
Todd:They're like, right above you.
Todd:They're like touching on these planes around you, if you will.
Todd:And it seems like, woo woo is all hell, I promise you.
Todd:I was so confused by it.
Todd:And there's a guy named Donnie Epstein explains, like, the science of it and stuff.
Todd:And it's, it's actually really crazy, the things that these people go through.
Todd:And it sounded similar to, like, this craniosacral therapy where it's like you're able to somehow get in there deep with these really light touches.
Todd:And so are you going for, like, trigger points, energetic trigger points, or nervous system trigger points, or.
Todd:How do you, how do you know where to touch?
Matt Meyer:You know, most, most of my work is a, is a hands on approach.
Matt Meyer:Now, studying martial arts and being involved in martial arts for years, I've seen, I've seen some things.
Matt Meyer:I've seen practitioners do some things via not touching that were absolutely unbelievable.
Matt Meyer:I haven't crossed that bridge yet, but it's there.
Matt Meyer:And I always, people will always ask me, hey, what do you think about this?
Matt Meyer:What do you think about this?
Matt Meyer:And I never say no to anything.
Matt Meyer:I always say, how is it working for you?
Matt Meyer:If the practitioner is safe and they're, therefore they're there really doing what they should do, which is helping the patient or client heal, then I'm all for it.
Matt Meyer:I didn't really know anything about Reiki, and I had a few experiences with Reiki that I really can't, I can't explain, but there were energetic responses and knowing that the body is an electric being and the ability, I think that the touch is just a roadmap, but I think there's practitioners that have honed skills to absolutely be able to affect change without touch for sure.
Todd:That's crazy.
Todd:So back to the cranial sacral.
Todd:How do you know where, I guess, what are the basis, what's the basis of what you learned to touching these areas really lightly and a big response.
Matt Meyer:Yeah, the training is actually very intensive and it is very much about feel.
Matt Meyer:You actually learn how to pick up on the pulse, the craniosacral pulse, and there's different areas of the body that you can pick this up.
Matt Meyer:And then there's a series of techniques that, to rebalance the cranial sacral system.
Matt Meyer:It's an energy based, very light touch system.
Matt Meyer:And again, explaining it, I mean, there is science behind it.
Matt Meyer:I mean, they've done anatomy labs where they've had, you know, had fresh cadavers that hadn't been embalmed and the cerebral spinal fluid.
Matt Meyer:And interestingly enough, when a patient, this is how doctor Upledger discovered this when the patient coded or, you know, died on the table.
Matt Meyer:The cardiac is dead, the lungs are dead.
Matt Meyer:But what he noticed was that the cerebral spinal fluid was still pulsing through the brain to the spine.
Matt Meyer:That's actually how he realize that, well, what is this?
Matt Meyer:Because typically this would be discarded even, you know, even like the fascia, right?
Matt Meyer:It's only been the last maybe 20 years that they realized that fascia isn't a viable organ in the body.
Matt Meyer:They would discard it during anatomy lab.
Matt Meyer:You wouldn't.
Matt Meyer:They would literally throw it out.
Matt Meyer:You'd have a dry body.
Matt Meyer:You'd have muscle, tendons, ligaments and bone.
Matt Meyer:The fascial system was discarded.
Matt Meyer: l, like I said, the last like: Matt Meyer:So that's a good example of how, you know, we're learning still about the body and things.
Matt Meyer:So with craniosacral, it's specifically based on this cerebral spinal fluid and trying to get the pulse and kind of rebalance or re regulate the cerebrospinal fluid flow through the body.
Todd:Man, that sounds so cool to me.
Todd:So me and you both believe in the energy and the motions and the physical body all kind of go hand in hand.
Todd:So I'm kind of curious about any sort of stories or experiences you've had with, let's say, someone's story kind of coming out and improving and then having that show up in their body or vice versa, where you have something, you know, that is allowing someone to improve their posture.
Todd:So you've put someone through a movement thing and it's now then, you know, turned into their personality, confidence, things like that, you know, because I see them as connected.
Todd:Even the Stanford, I think it's, or Princeton research on the power postures.
Todd:Standing in a good posture increases, you know, dopamine and testosterone and all these different things.
Todd:And so how have you kind of seen that connection play in hand to hand?
Matt Meyer:That the, that connection I see often, you know, someone comes in to see me, and especially if they're dealing with pain, you know, we have a protective mechanism of this.
Matt Meyer:And after taking them through, you know, a session that I do, and now I'm also really careful.
Matt Meyer:I'm, I don't look at myself as any type of a healer whatsoever.
Matt Meyer:I am helping, I'm working with my client to help them facilitate their own healing.
Matt Meyer:I'm very careful about using that word healer personally.
Matt Meyer:And there are healers out there, so that's very important to me.
Matt Meyer:And I always say this is a partnership.
Matt Meyer:I'm just, I'm clearing some pathways for you to help you get out of pain or to move better or to sprint faster.
Matt Meyer:I can tell you one thing that I learned very on in school.
Matt Meyer:I was working with, I was in massage therapy school, and obviously the day is spent doing lots of hands on therapies.
Matt Meyer:And at the time, I was like, I didn't want any of the woo woo stuff.
Matt Meyer:I wanted to learn everything that I could do to help athletes get better.
Matt Meyer:So in my mind, it was like, you know, aggressive soft tissue work, stretching, opening up.
Matt Meyer:And my partner, we were doing work.
Matt Meyer:We were doing, like, lower body work.
Matt Meyer:And it was, if he was a female.
Matt Meyer:And there's also a big consent thing, you know, you want to really ask people to kind of enter into their plane.
Matt Meyer:So when I'm working with people, I'm also very upfront in saying, you know, I'm going to do some work here in the, in the pelvic girdle, in the adductors.
Matt Meyer:If I'm working with kids, the parents are standing, sitting right next to me as I do that.
Matt Meyer:In almost all my work, too, that I do is, is almost fully clothed or gym clothes.
Matt Meyer:And so my partner, I was working her add doctor, and, you know, all of a sudden she just bursts out crying.
Matt Meyer:And I thought I was like, oh, man, I just like, you know, must have went over a trigger point or a really, you know, crazy knot or something like that.
Matt Meyer:And the, it was just a full on, you know, release.
Matt Meyer:So I gave her some space, and, you know, I'm a student, too, so now I'm, like, freaked out.
Matt Meyer:I'm like, oh, my God, did I hurt this person?
Matt Meyer:So the teacher had come over and, you know, and I.
Matt Meyer:It kind of just let her have a little space.
Matt Meyer:And then we talked later, and I just wanted.
Matt Meyer:I came up and said, hey, are you okay?
Matt Meyer:So this student at the time was even a little bit older than me.
Matt Meyer:She was probably 40.
Matt Meyer:And she said, I don't know what happened, but I had a point in my life when I was seven or eight, when I was sexually assaulted.
Matt Meyer:And she had blocked out most of it specifically, but she knew of the event, and the work that I had done in that inner thigh had released or activated some emotions inside her body.
Matt Meyer:And that was a big.
Matt Meyer:That was like, whoa.
Matt Meyer:That's when I knew.
Matt Meyer:This work is powerful.
Matt Meyer:Hands on touch from another human to another human is very powerful, and it also wields a lot of responsibility.
Matt Meyer:That was a, you know, that was kind of, like, my first experience with that.
Matt Meyer:And, you know, I've had so many great stories of.
Matt Meyer:And I call that a great story because she was actually able to start processing that after and was able to go and get some other therapies done and things to help her go through that, which may have not have been, I guess, awakened unless that specific moment didn't happen.
Matt Meyer:You know, that's, to me, that's.
Matt Meyer:That's a synchronicity.
Matt Meyer:That's a.
Matt Meyer:That was meant to happen.
Matt Meyer:And I still keep in touch with her even, you know, 25 years later.
Matt Meyer:And we kind of, like, joke around about that and kind of, like, laugh about the.
Matt Meyer:How powerful that was.
Matt Meyer:But I get to see amazing moments like that all the time.
Matt Meyer:You know, having someone that has been in pain and having them send me a text a couple days later, and I, you know, I kind of break the seal of traditional medicine, too, where, you know, I check in on my clients often, and there's really nothing else in this field that gets me so excited is when I text a client and they say, hey, I haven't had a headache in three days, or my pain went from a seven to a three.
Matt Meyer:That is the ultimate for me.
Matt Meyer:That's the ultimate high.
Matt Meyer:I get goosebumps when that happens, because that really sets me straight up, like, man, this work is so powerful.
Matt Meyer:So I'm grateful that I get to experience that often.
Todd:Yeah, that's what's so cool, man.
Todd:Like, just think about the the mind body connection and the idea that the body keeps the score.
Todd:And so the fact that you could literally, you know, be unleashing some of those things for somebody and then, you know, being able to even potentially with some of your story work, be like, hey, you know, like, we can talk about it if you want to, you know?
Matt Meyer:Yeah.
Matt Meyer:You know, that's really why I had kind of got into the enlifted method, because, and I have.
Matt Meyer:I have a lot of therapists that are like, mental health practitioners, sports psychologists.
Matt Meyer:And I wanted.
Matt Meyer:I asked them and I actually took them through some of the work, and I said, I just want to make sure I'm not out of my scope of practice.
Matt Meyer:I want to make sure that I'm not, you know, stepping on your toes or doing all unequivocally said, absolutely.
Matt Meyer:This work is amazing.
Matt Meyer:It's stuff that we don't do.
Matt Meyer:We could, but it's just not in our wheelhouse.
Matt Meyer:So my next horizon that I'm working with is how can I really integrate this story language and lifted work in even more than I'm doing now?
Matt Meyer:So that's my own kind of personal business stuff that I'm working on.
Todd:Yeah.
Todd:And would you say that you've been able to see a decent amount of progress with people that you are using the lifted method upfront?
Matt Meyer:Yeah, yeah, no, for sure.
Matt Meyer:One thing that I did, and I've always had, I didn't serve in the military, but I've always had a very deep connection to veterans.
Matt Meyer:I did a lot of studying in school on post traumatic stress disorder and outside of school.
Matt Meyer:And so when I finished level one, I immediately started messaging some veterans groups and some people that I knew were veterans and said, listen, I have this program pro bono.
Matt Meyer:I just want to go through some of the work with you.
Matt Meyer:And it's been pretty amazing, actually, Chad, that I mentioned earlier, he was on Cal's podcast, and I was listening to the podcast.
Matt Meyer:I never met the guy.
Matt Meyer:And I just finished, I think, level one, and I sent him a message on instagram, and I said, hey, my name is Matt Meyer.
Matt Meyer:I just did this program.
Matt Meyer:And I said, you know, no strings attached if you'd like to go through some of this work.
Matt Meyer:So Chad and I messaged back a little bit, and, you know, a year later, I took him through.
Matt Meyer:He's gone through about seven or eight sessions with me.
Matt Meyer:We became actually good friends and connected in a couple other different ways.
Matt Meyer:He's got a great program.
Matt Meyer:The analogy I use with this story work and language work is it's like if you took a big steak and you just smashed it down, swallowed it, you're going to have indigestion, right?
Matt Meyer:You're going to have bloat.
Matt Meyer:You're just going to have this, like, unsettling stomach.
Matt Meyer:And what I tell people is it's like you have that undigested steak, sorry, vegans, in your belly.
Matt Meyer:I'm going to help you regurgitate it, and then we're going to cut it up into little pieces, and then you're going to re swallow it.
Matt Meyer:And it sounds really.
Matt Meyer:It's so true of what it is, because these stories that are swirling in the head, it's getting the stories out on paper, and it's just guiding people through their own story.
Matt Meyer:I'm not giving advice on how they should handle their nasty brother or their relationship.
Matt Meyer:I'm literally just helping them cut through all of the self talk and all of that for their story.
Matt Meyer:And the results are.
Matt Meyer:I mean, the results are amazing, to say the least.
Todd:That's crazy.
Todd:So, okay, so did you face any imposter syndrome at the beginning?
Todd:I love to talk about this a little bit.
Todd:Having a fresh certification and then moving into helping veterans.
Todd:To me, that sounds terrifying.
Todd:I'm gonna be honest with you, because, like, I've gotten into a lot of this mental performance work and stuff, and when I think about working with someone with, like, a real, you know, serious issue, like PTSD, I get scared.
Todd:It's like, man, I don't.
Todd:I don't want someone to unload something on me that then triggers something in them.
Todd:Now they go through, you know, a breakthrough or, you know, breakdown, and I'm responsible for that, and I don't know how to necessarily pull someone out of that.
Todd:And so how.
Todd:How did you kind of traverse that?
Matt Meyer:Well, I can.
Matt Meyer:I can tell you personally.
Matt Meyer:So one of the reasons why I had even one there was the one reason was getting into this enlifted work was twofold.
Matt Meyer:It was because I saw the need for it.
Matt Meyer:It's interesting, high performance sports.
Matt Meyer:What I found was, is that when you're working with these athletes and these teams, you are literally at their beck and call.
Matt Meyer:And when I first got in with teams, you just say yes, and, you know, you're at the facility working six or 7 hours, and then the athlete calls and then another athlete calls.
Matt Meyer:And I was finding myself, like, sometimes making house calls, working with these athletes till midnight, and I was burning out, and I was burning out fast.
Matt Meyer:And it was interesting.
Matt Meyer:It was like I got to the top of the mountain.
Matt Meyer:And I was like, oh, yeah, I'm like, yeah, I'm here.
Matt Meyer:But I realized that if I, there's five or six other people that are constantly trying to get to the top of that mountain.
Matt Meyer:And I had kind of come to this, like, standstill moment of like, man, is this really what I want to do?
Matt Meyer:I had always thought, like, yep, I want to work for a professional sports team full time, and that's going to be my thing.
Matt Meyer:And then I started to realize maybe that's not quite what I want to do.
Matt Meyer:And when you start putting the brakes on, there's always people that want to fill in that spot, which is good for them.
Matt Meyer:It's great.
Matt Meyer:So I was struggling with trying to do the thing, but also spending enough time with my family, and, you know, I have two young daughters, and I was struggling with that, and I was struggling with being able to balance that out.
Matt Meyer:So for a couple years, I kind of hit a very, like, you know, I was in this grave area where I was working with the teams, but my performance was going down, and I was just kind of stuck.
Matt Meyer:Speaking of all the letters after your name, I knew I was stuck when I had purchased an online course to do.
Matt Meyer:And, you know, I love learning.
Matt Meyer:I love education, and I purchased this course and I would open it up and I just could not.
Matt Meyer:I could not do it.
Matt Meyer:And the course was amazing.
Matt Meyer:It wasn't anything that.
Matt Meyer:It wasn't the course's fault.
Matt Meyer:And I was just.
Matt Meyer:I think I was burned out, really.
Matt Meyer:So level one of enlifted is not about anybody else.
Matt Meyer:You actually are doing the work for yourself.
Matt Meyer:And after going through the process of that and doing my own story work, I was like, yeah, it was me.
Matt Meyer:And I had massive impostor symptom syndrome.
Matt Meyer:And I also had a nice little side plate of the victim mentality.
Matt Meyer:Right.
Matt Meyer:And so that it was self care as well, doing this work and realizing it really kind of brought out precisely what I want to do.
Matt Meyer:And, you know, I have a beautiful private practice now.
Matt Meyer:I'm able to go to be there for all of my kids events.
Matt Meyer:I mean, I was on the PTA.
Matt Meyer:I get to go all do all their stuff, and I can still have a practice, but I had to do.
Matt Meyer:I had to be okay with other therapists and practitioners doing what I thought I wanted to do.
Matt Meyer:And that took a.
Matt Meyer:That took a lot out of me that, you know, I had to say no.
Matt Meyer:And I knew that by me saying no, there wasn't going to be like, oh, come on, man, you know, I can really.
Matt Meyer:No, there's five other people there that, oh, man, I can't do it.
Matt Meyer:And you learn very quick, like, oh, okay.
Matt Meyer:So, personally, I had to really go through that trade off of being like, all right, if I'm not going to be the guy, I can't.
Matt Meyer:I can't, you know, swim around in my own shit with that.
Matt Meyer:So sorry.
Matt Meyer:I don't know if you can square on this podcast.
Todd:You can.
Todd:Absolutely.
Todd:You can.
Todd:Absolutely.
Todd:Yes.
Matt Meyer:But so that really was a big part of me doing that work.
Matt Meyer:Even if I.
Matt Meyer:If I knew I was going to do that or not, I was like, oh, I'm doing this for everybody else, but I was really doing it for me.
Matt Meyer:So, you know, coming out of that and doing the level two, and it just created a lot of space and clarity for what I wanted to do and what was important.
Matt Meyer:And I still.
Matt Meyer:I still get the imposter syndrome sometime.
Matt Meyer:You know, it's.
Matt Meyer:It's.
Matt Meyer:It still happens.
Matt Meyer:You know, I have an athlete that I work with, and I build a relationship, and all of a sudden it's crickets and I don't get the calls anymore.
Matt Meyer:And that would keep me up at night.
Matt Meyer:What am I doing?
Matt Meyer:What am I not doing?
Matt Meyer:Do I need another certification?
Matt Meyer:Do I need none of those?
Matt Meyer:So I have come to a place where I'm okay with that.
Matt Meyer:If I'm giving 100% of what I do and it only goes so far, I mean, I'm happy with that.
Todd:That's crazy.
Todd:What a story.
Todd:I mean, to go from, you know, letting go of the needing to be the guy to ultimately ended up being.
Todd:You're the gear, the guy.
Todd:Now you're working with two professional sports teams.
Todd:Like, you're still the guy, you know, and you did it in your own way.
Matt Meyer:I am.
Matt Meyer:And that's where, too.
Matt Meyer:You know, there's.
Matt Meyer:There's levels that you have to.
Matt Meyer:That you have to look at.
Matt Meyer:And, you know, for me, first, my self care, how I am as a human, and my health is number one because I can't give more than I can't give myself.
Matt Meyer:And then being there for my family, and then third is being great therapists to help people, but it's got to start with the person.
Matt Meyer:And it sounds first, it's like, is it being selfish?
Matt Meyer:But it's really not.
Matt Meyer:You know, that I was at a yoga class, I remember years ago, and the yoga teacher said that it's very cliche when she says, you know, if you're in an.
Matt Meyer:You know how they say when you're going on the airplane, and they say, if your mask comes down, put the mask on you first before you can help others.
Matt Meyer:And, you know, you're.
Matt Meyer:And I'm like, all right, whatever.
Matt Meyer:But I was like, shit, that's so true.
Matt Meyer:So that's, you know, that's been a big thing with me, is taking back the control of my own health and making sure that I'm functioning the best I can through all these different things that I know how to do and sauna and cold top and breath work and journal, all these things and movement.
Matt Meyer:And then I can give to my family and then to my clients, whether those clients are an 88 year old woman who wants to travel or a 23 year old high performance professional athlete.
Matt Meyer:I love them all.
Matt Meyer:I love them all.
Todd:So what would you say were some of your methods then for tuning into that place and understanding what wasn't for you and being willing to let go of that pathway that you were taking that had probably felt very powerful and it was pulling you, you know, maybe society's expectations, maybe your own picture you'd create in your head of, you know, what you should be doing, quote unquote, or what would be a good job, quote unquote.
Matt Meyer:Yeah.
Todd:Before you had really settled into this new thing, you know, because I know a lot of people struggle with creating their own unique pathway and will therefore pull themselves down a pathway straight through retirement that maybe they never really wanted to do in the first place.
Todd:So the fact that you were able to pull away from that, to me, is very respectable.
Todd:And I'm curious what methods you might have utilized along the way.
Matt Meyer:The method was being 100% honest to yourself about what you want.
Matt Meyer:I think also, too, I'm fortunate because I'm in a career or profession that I absolutely love to do.
Matt Meyer:And, you know, I have my two girls that are 16 and eleven now.
Matt Meyer:I tell them all the time, I said, look, I'm.
Matt Meyer:This is real time.
Matt Meyer:If you don't do something that you love, no matter what that is, I don't care if it's an accounting or, you know, owning a spa.
Matt Meyer:That is so important because you will burn out and the people around you will usually suffer first.
Matt Meyer:You know, the family, the friends, your loved ones, because you're, you know, you've created this energy about you, and then the last thing to go is yourself.
Matt Meyer:So, you know, during the pandemic, I had a lot of time.
Matt Meyer:My.
Matt Meyer:My office at the gym was shut down because gyms were shut down.
Matt Meyer:Right.
Matt Meyer:Brilliant.
Matt Meyer:That gave me a lot of time to really sit and think about what I wanted to do.
Matt Meyer:You know, the other thing that had happened was I had always operated, kind of like I operated.
Matt Meyer:I had a little office within a gym, and, you know, I was working for a sports medicine clinic here and here.
Matt Meyer:But I had the opportunity to open up an actual standalone space, which I was always very afraid to do.
Matt Meyer:You know, my wife is a banker financial person, so we have this, like, yin yang relationship where I'm like, up here and she's always down here.
Matt Meyer:Yeah.
Matt Meyer:And it forced me to kind of step out of that, and I was able to open up my own standalone place, which I never thought I would be able to do.
Matt Meyer:And, you know, all the things that come with having your own office and things in your own space, but it'll be coming up on four years in January, and I'm just like, I love the more and more time I spend doing this work.
Matt Meyer:I like spending more of my time here with, with my clients.
Matt Meyer:You know, I have a little treatment room.
Matt Meyer:I have a movement gym space.
Matt Meyer:I have a little place in the back to do some podcasting.
Matt Meyer:So.
Matt Meyer:But I'm still always having to review my thoughts and my process of how I'm doing and how I'm working with and doing these other ventures because it's so important.
Matt Meyer:And you can never eliminate the imposter syndrome.
Matt Meyer:It's always going to be there.
Matt Meyer:It's just a manageable thing.
Matt Meyer:I think it's human to always think like, man, I could be doing better.
Matt Meyer:I could be doing this.
Matt Meyer:But going through some of those basic tools of what we call for stepping a story and, you know, connecting and going for a walk and doing, you know, some breathing and journaling, all these little tools that are very simple, they're very profound.
Matt Meyer:So it's kind of going back to basics.
Matt Meyer:You know, I go back to basics, and anytime I'm starting to feel, you know, stuck in that and go back and kind of recalibrate what I want to do and what's important, and I always come out like I'm doing the right thing, I'm on the right path.
Todd:Nice.
Todd:So.
Todd:So how then are you balancing the current contentment of being happy with what you're doing and enjoying it with, with growing the business and maybe future plans for, you know, or do you have future plans for growing the business or just going to ride this out through retirement, you know?
Matt Meyer:Yeah, I mean, I also, I don't ever want to retire.
Matt Meyer:I'm going to be doing this work.
Matt Meyer:I'm 52.
Matt Meyer:I'm going to be doing this work till I'm dead.
Matt Meyer:Bottom line, I'm going to be either teaching or helping.
Matt Meyer:Helping people.
Matt Meyer:I would say, like, personally moving to more of an online platform is something that I've been looking into.
Matt Meyer:A course, offering a course or something that people could purchase and work with them.
Matt Meyer:The cool thing about, you know, technology is technology is that you can work with people.
Matt Meyer:And that was something with doing some of this story work and lifted work.
Matt Meyer:I worked with people that have been all over the country, and it's like, okay, cool.
Matt Meyer:You know, now I don't have to have the person right here in front of me.
Matt Meyer:You know, I can get on the computer and do very promising work with people from, you know, wherever they are, depending on that.
Matt Meyer:So I'll still always have a capacity to work with people, like, traditionally, but moving forward, being able to spread my wings, to be able to help others that maybe I couldn't in the past because of things like some of these platforms that we have Zoom and whatnot.
Matt Meyer:So, yeah, that's my next goal that I'll work with.
Todd:That's honestly awesome.
Todd:The fact that you're able to work with people both in person, you know, with the several different modalities that you're using, as well as online through story work, like, that's.
Todd:That's crazy.
Matt Meyer:So, you know, and, like, going back to the posture, you know, and this is something I've just been kind of like, whiteboarding is being able to do some of the story work, which is really just like, mindset, right?
Matt Meyer:So mindset.
Matt Meyer:The definition of mindset in our world is the story we tell ourselves.
Matt Meyer:Right?
Matt Meyer:That's the definition of mindset.
Matt Meyer:So going through and doing some work with somebody, working on their words, working on their mindset, and then teaching them some positions of posture, you know, teaching them some breathing things, these are all things we could do via, you know, an online platform, which is really powerful, you know, someone that's slunched over, you know, giving them some cues and some movement things to be able to say, all right, I.
Matt Meyer:We're going to do these three mobility exercises.
Matt Meyer:You know, we're going to do some of the story work and kind of mend it all together.
Matt Meyer:That's my, uh, that's.
Matt Meyer:That's my goal with what I want to do.
Todd:That's cool.
Todd:So creating, like, a course around it, if you will, as well, you know, or even group work or something like that.
Matt Meyer:Absolutely.
Matt Meyer:Absolutely.
Matt Meyer:And I'm a life.
Matt Meyer:I'm a lifelong learner, so.
Matt Meyer:And interestingly enough, that course that I purchased like three years ago, I just wrote in my journal the other day, I was like, finish the course that I bought, and I'm going to finish that course.
Todd:And with, like, a different mindset of, like, I don't need this because I'm not good enough, but I'm going to continue to be a lifelong learner just.
Matt Meyer:To get back to learning.
Matt Meyer:So.
Matt Meyer:Yeah, but it's always, you know, you're always the, the other thing, which is interesting, especially when you're talking about professional athletes.
Matt Meyer:The imposter syndrome is huge in that community.
Matt Meyer:Huge.
Matt Meyer:Literally, some of the best professional athletes have massive cases of imposter syndrome.
Matt Meyer:And that's why often you'll see some of their careers will all of a sudden sideline or they have an injury and it just takes them out.
Matt Meyer:And there could be three other people that happened to in that world and they were fine.
Matt Meyer:So that's something noticing, too, is, man, the imposter syndrome and the mental health aspect in these professional sports are huge.
Matt Meyer:And even going down, I'm seeing it in youth sports.
Matt Meyer:I mean, I think that the pressure and the struggles that society parents are putting on these young athletes is just, I could probably do a three hour podcast, just go off about youth sports and, you know, I think what's happening here and things like that.
Matt Meyer:So.
Matt Meyer:But, yeah, imposter syndrome running huge in professional sports.
Matt Meyer:I think Mark talks about it, too, like, you know, some of the best special forces guys that he's worked with, huge, huge imposter syndrome.
Matt Meyer:And you're like, what?
Matt Meyer:And he gave us some examples and it's like, wow.
Matt Meyer:So those people that you don't think are have it.
Matt Meyer:They do.
Matt Meyer:And it's nasty.
Todd:Yeah.
Todd:That's crazy.
Todd:That's crazy.
Todd:Have you worked with any sports psychologists in, like, or had experience with sports psychologists and maybe seen a person who needed this help or done it yourself?
Todd:I'm kind of curious about your experiences with witnessing firsthand someone having imposter syndrome and either wanting to help them or knowing that they're getting help.
Matt Meyer:So I have a colleague who's a sports psychologist who works with a lot of professional athletes.
Matt Meyer:And when I finished, when I finished level one, I said, hey, I want to go through this with you.
Matt Meyer:And because I wanted to see, I talked about it earlier, I'll make sure that I was in my scope of practice.
Matt Meyer:And I took him through about three or four sessions, and he was really blown away.
Matt Meyer:He was really blown away by it because it's just, he's like you're getting into these, like, cracks and crevices that we just don't do in the professional field.
Matt Meyer:So that was a huge, like, wow, this is great.
Matt Meyer:This works great.
Matt Meyer:This is good.
Matt Meyer:The challenge is, and this is not the challenge even with me, but even working with him and a few other people in that field, not only are the athletes very guarded about getting into that, a lot of them do not want to open that box.
Matt Meyer:The teens and the teams can also be very dark.
Matt Meyer:I worked with an amazing hypnotherapist actually in the area that does just phenomenal work who was working with some professional athletes, and he had actually went in and had an interview because the athletes were like, hey, this guy is amazing.
Matt Meyer:I'd like maybe bring them in some capacity.
Matt Meyer:And after meeting with some of the executives up there, they shut the door as fast as they could because there is a lot of.
Matt Meyer:There's a lot there when you're starting to break down and getting into this, breaking down through some of this ego and some of these things, which could be a lever for some of these guys being the athletes that they are, they're shutting out of other things.
Todd:I was just thinking.
Todd:Yeah.
Matt Meyer:So I get.
Matt Meyer:I have lots of great conversations with, you know, a couple of these people that are in the field, and it's like they need it, but they don't know they need it.
Matt Meyer:And they may not be allowed to have because some of that closed, which creates anger, rage could also be a fuel for them being an amazing athlete.
Todd:Yeah, that's a tough thing.
Todd:And I think that's.
Todd:That's something that I've come across as well, that athletes will actually fear doing that work, you know, because it's like, well, you're gonna get rid of the chip on my shoulder.
Todd:Like, that doesn't seem very helpful to me, even though, like, obviously on, maybe it's like, maybe when I'm done playing football, maybe when I'm, you know, going into my civilian life, then we can work on that stuff.
Todd:But for now, I'm just gonna leave it to the side.
Todd:But then, you know, having that belief at least that we would.
Todd:That, like, you, you would just perform better in general, most likely if you could kind of just be in a more realistic place.
Todd:But who knows?
Todd:Actually, I don't really know.
Matt Meyer:Or the person may say, what the fuck am I doing?
Matt Meyer:Like, I have a life to live.
Matt Meyer:Yeah, that's the ultimate.
Matt Meyer:Like, whoa.
Matt Meyer:So that's a field I give.
Matt Meyer:I give those men and women that work in that field, that's a.
Matt Meyer:That's a real challenging.
Matt Meyer:That's a real challenging place to be where it's like, you're helping, but you got to be careful.
Matt Meyer:Too much help.
Matt Meyer:So, you know, that segues into a little.
Matt Meyer:We talked about, like, where some of these veteran guys and some of these athletes.
Matt Meyer:And I made this parallel with a couple practitioners.
Matt Meyer:There's a lifted coach up in Vancouver, Kyle Stubbs, who's amazing, who's law enforcement.
Matt Meyer:And we had this conversation last year in Richmond how there's a lot of parallels between the veteran community and the professional athlete community upon their exit of their fields and with veterans, it's pretty, you know, it's pretty straightforward.
Matt Meyer:I mean, these guys and girls have seen massive amounts of trauma, stress, PTSD, and it's all of a sudden, like, do you ever see the hurt locker?
Matt Meyer:There's this one scene where Jeremy Reiner, he's in this.
Matt Meyer:It's like a 15 minutes, they're in Iraq, and he's disposing this IED, and it's just this crazy, stressful scene.
Matt Meyer:And all of a sudden he's back home and he's, like, looking at the freezer section that his wife sent him to to get, like, waffles.
Matt Meyer:And it's just like, he's looking and it's like that transition and that really.
Matt Meyer:That really caught me.
Todd:That.
Matt Meyer:And what I see is with a lot of professional athletes, you know, since they've been.
Matt Meyer:If you're.
Matt Meyer:If you're a professional athlete and you're making.
Matt Meyer:You're getting paid to do your sport, probably by the time you were ten or eleven, you've been told, like, you're special.
Matt Meyer:And they're groomed and they're playing travel and they're playing their high level sports.
Matt Meyer:And then they get into college, and then now they're drafted and now they're playing professional.
Matt Meyer:Some of them run into the same problem where when their career ends, they're kind of lost.
Matt Meyer:And some of them have families they don't even know.
Matt Meyer:Very similar to military life.
Matt Meyer:And they're in their late twenties, early thirties, and they're, like, staring at that giant freezer full of waffles.
Matt Meyer:Like, what do I do now?
Matt Meyer:There's a guy named Evan Britton.
Matt Meyer:I don't know if you know Evan.
Matt Meyer:So Evan Britton is.
Matt Meyer:He's an ex NFL athlete, and he left the NFL, and he was actually the co host of Mike Tyson's podcast.
Matt Meyer:And then he started his own podcast, and Eben has.
Matt Meyer:And he's told the story about him going through injuries and then getting out of sports and figuring out, like, you know, well, am I going to be an announcer?
Matt Meyer:Am I going to coach?
Matt Meyer:But he realized that he needed to have an absolute ego death of his former self, which was very toxic.
Matt Meyer:So that's where the plant medicines came in.
Matt Meyer:And that's why you've seen a lot of these professional athletes that are starting to dabble and use these plant medicines, really in the same way that these veterans are and the need for it.
Matt Meyer:You know, they're using some of these medicines to help them figure out what they want to do in life after all the trauma, you know, after the concussions, after, you know, the military life and the death and destruction.
Matt Meyer:And they're leveraging these now to kind of dissolve the old so they can live their life.
Matt Meyer:And I think that's they're just touching the surface of the benefit of what they could do, hypothetically, if I were taking some clients or athletes through some of these plant medicine ceremonies, hypothetically, of course, the enlifted method is an amazing integration piece that I've hypothetically used.
Matt Meyer:And getting through the story work and then using the medicine to help kind of clear those neural pathways and then doing more work after and seeing the shift of before.
Matt Meyer:Just the story work itself is so powerful.
Matt Meyer:But now, if and when that person is ready, when they add a plant medicine to it, it's like a turbo boost to help clear that out and get on the other end of it.
Matt Meyer:Just, it's an amazing field.
Matt Meyer:I just saw an article, I think, the other day, the last couple days, about how there's great research, actually, with plant medicines and concussions, and athletes are trying to get a hold of these to be able to use to help heal from concussions.
Matt Meyer:But you saw, like, Aaron Rodgers and there's lots of athletes that have been kind of singing the praises, some of the guys and girls that have the clout that they can say it.
Matt Meyer:And, you know, there's a lot of fear because of the legality of it, right?
Matt Meyer:But, you know, I've had so many amazing conversations with athletes, professional athletes, college, a few Olympic athletes, on some of the excitement of some of this research that's coming out with plant medicines, but there's such a big stigma, and obviously, the legality of it makes it a barrier.
Matt Meyer:But I think it's the next ten years, you're gonna see just a huge shift of using some of these substances to help heal trauma and PTSD and honestly, just to be able to live life better after you're done with your sport or your military service.
Todd:That's crazy.
Todd:It seems so cool, too.
Todd:And I feel like it would even help an athlete shift back to a mindset of, like, I love this game, you know, and I.
Todd:And I'm good at it.
Todd:And I've practiced a bunch, and so I just enjoy being out here playing as opposed to this, like, competitive do or die, you know, anger coming out into the field.
Todd:Yeah, those things.
Todd:And so that's the tool.
Matt Meyer:That's the scary tool because these plant medicines are teachers.
Matt Meyer:And if that teacher says, no, this isn't for you, that's a challenge, you know, because these are businesses and it's super exciting.
Matt Meyer:I love, like, reading about it.
Matt Meyer:I think it's so cool.
Matt Meyer:I get to have really cool, kind of off the record conversations because, you know, you build relationships with some of these athletes and you spend time at their homes and with their families.
Matt Meyer:And I.
Matt Meyer:I mean, some of my best conversations I have are just kind of these off the record conversations about, like, what are you going to do after?
Matt Meyer:How are you going to do that?
Matt Meyer:And hearing what some of these guys and girls want to do and how they want to do it is just really cool.
Matt Meyer:It's, you know, just being there to just talk and support is very rewarding for me.
Todd:Yeah, I can imagine.
Todd:I can imagine, man.
Todd:And, like.
Todd:And that.
Todd:So this is actually something that's very interesting to me as well when it comes to the PTSD and the athletes having things in common.
Todd:And there's actually a TED talk, and I wish honest, I could remember the name, but it's about how soldiers enjoyed war, actually would rather go back to war.
Todd:And the whole talk was about basically the fact that these gentlemen had brotherhood.
Todd:Brotherhood was a big part of their life.
Todd:And so whether it's in sports or whether it's in the military, you have this brotherhood.
Todd:You have these people that are all, you know, exactly who's a for you, who's got your back.
Todd:And you are constantly experiencing this, like, you know, group ecstasis, this group, you know, flow together with other people, and it just feels amazing.
Todd:And there's almost nothing that can really make up for that, you know?
Todd:And so then all of a sudden, you exit the military or exit, you know, the NFL or whatever, and now you have no brotherhood.
Todd:You have nothing.
Todd:And so I think it's kind of cool.
Todd:Even with the plant medicine being put in place there is, because it does help with the.
Todd:The over.
Todd:The underlying fact of interconnectedness, of knowing that we are all in this together of establishing a brotherhood through the people that you did, you know, the retreat with or through the, you know, just general humankind, honestly.
Todd:And so I think that's, to me, something that seems really cool to me is that reestablishing a brotherhood for these people, whether it's in sports or outside of sports, partially through prime medicine, partially through coming together to integrate into those things and have these conversations in the way that you're describing them.
Matt Meyer:Yeah.
Matt Meyer:And I'll even go a step further.
Matt Meyer:I think one of the things that's happening with the youth socially is that they are missing that brotherhood.
Matt Meyer:So, I mean, I have girls, and it's a little different, but I know for boys, for young men, you know, they.
Matt Meyer:I did a.
Matt Meyer:I've always had a real, like, affinity towards native american culture where we live.
Matt Meyer:There's.
Matt Meyer:I've been fortunate to actually attend some sweat lodge with some of the local natives and whatnot.
Matt Meyer:And there's no the vision quest of young men in society.
Matt Meyer:And this happened in all cultures.
Matt Meyer:We don't have those.
Matt Meyer:We don't have those anymore.
Matt Meyer:For young.
Matt Meyer:For young men, not only have those been taken out, is that now, if you are a young man and you show any signs of aggression, which is different than violence, it's immediately put down through the schools, through social media, this kind of.
Matt Meyer:This toxic masculinity.
Matt Meyer:So there's a search for this that's missing.
Matt Meyer:And with social media and whatnot, it's like we're actually driving wedges through that.
Matt Meyer:You know, that play.
Matt Meyer:Now kids, you know, they're playing.
Matt Meyer:They're playing online together instead of, you know, in person and, you know, working those things out.
Matt Meyer:You know, you're at the baseball diamond and someone slides into you and, you know, roughs you up a little bit.
Matt Meyer:There's something important about how you.
Matt Meyer:How you handle those things.
Matt Meyer:And we're missing a lot of that.
Matt Meyer:And for.
Matt Meyer:For young.
Matt Meyer:For young girls, I think it's a little bit different, but still.
Matt Meyer:It's still a little bit of a problem.
Matt Meyer:You know, there's a physiological thing that happens with, with females, you know, when they start menstruating, that's kind of the coming of age.
Matt Meyer:Right?
Matt Meyer:That's.
Matt Meyer:That's a piece, but with boys, they don't have that piece.
Matt Meyer:That's why I'm a huge proponent of martial arts, especially for boys.
Matt Meyer:After about a ten year hiatus of me not making time for it, I just recently started getting back into jiu jitsu and Thai boxing and that community and culture is amazing, and I really missed it.
Matt Meyer:And for kids, I think it's really wonderful, especially for Boysenhe, you know, wrestling and some of those physical sports, they're so important, you know?
Matt Meyer:Boy, that's how they learn.
Matt Meyer:You know, when I was.
Matt Meyer:When I was little, my dad was a teacher, and I was obsessed with playing war and toy guns.
Matt Meyer:And, I mean, I would, I didn't have any younger brothers or sisters, and if I didn't have any friends, I mean, I would literally, like, I would hide, like, a toy gun in the garage and I'd go in the back for hours, I mean, and play.
Matt Meyer:And I remember, and, you know, finally they just, they let in.
Matt Meyer:But I remember when I was in my twenties, I read this study and I sent it to my dad.
Matt Meyer:It was about how, like, if you gave, they put kids, boys and girls, in rooms and they gave me sticks, and the boys made weapons and the girls like, made like, tools and stuff like that to make dinner.
Matt Meyer:And I remember sending it to him.
Matt Meyer:Look, I'm okay.
Matt Meyer:I'm okay.
Matt Meyer:I turned on.
Matt Meyer:He's kind of like, laughing.
Matt Meyer:He's like, I guess you're right.
Matt Meyer:I.
Matt Meyer:You know, that correlation, it's hardwired into us to do certain things, and when we take that away, we're changing the fabric of our DNA.
Todd:It's crazy.
Todd:So you being into so many different things, is there an avenue you'd like to head more into, or do you kind of enjoy being like, the doing stuff online, being a proponent of holistic health, doing stuff in person?
Todd:To me, it sounds like you're doing a lot.
Todd:And I respect, I have a huge respect for people that are doing a lot and let themselves do a lot.
Matt Meyer:Yeah, I mean, I love it all.
Matt Meyer:Like, I.
Matt Meyer:When I, when I pull in to, you know, one of the facilities to go work with a team, I'm excited about it.
Matt Meyer:You know, if I have a, you know, I have a call.
Matt Meyer:I have a call after this to actually, for a veteran that reached out to me this past week about doing some of the enlifted work.
Matt Meyer:I mean, I'm like, so excited to talk to him.
Matt Meyer:I love podcasting, so I like all the channels.
Matt Meyer:And I think for me personally, having different types of stimulus and that makes me tick, you know, doing hands on work, you know, teaching a workshop, doing things like this, it all, it all makes me happy.
Todd:That's crazy.
Todd:So you go into the actual, like, the bandits and the bills facilities and just like, do you show up?
Todd:Do you have your own kind of schedule or do they call?
Matt Meyer:We usually have, you know, there's a sports medicine team there, so we're just kind of arms of these teams.
Matt Meyer:So we have schedules and, you know, which guys want to be seen.
Matt Meyer:And I.
Matt Meyer:You know, then typically, if the.
Matt Meyer:If the day runs out, because the professional athletes do, they're on a very, very, like, tight scale.
Matt Meyer:Their days are literally.
Matt Meyer:They have screens everywhere telling them where they need to be, what time.
Matt Meyer:So if time runs out, then, you know, you'll circle up and, you know, work with some of these guys either at their houses or they'll come to.
Matt Meyer:You know, they'll come here to the facility.
Matt Meyer:One.
Matt Meyer:That's my little place, and we can do some work.
Matt Meyer:So, yeah, it just kind of depends on the.
Matt Meyer:On the mode and what part of the season and they're into makes a big difference.
Todd:And so are these guys deciding to acquire your services or is this.
Todd:Or is it done through the actual team itself?
Todd:Cause, I mean, we're talking about post rehab still, like, guys who've been injured but have not.
Todd:Not in physical therapy anymore, trying to.
Matt Meyer:Learn how to move.
Todd:Right.
Matt Meyer:Usually it's like that team approach, you know, they might recommend, hey, I want you to go see so and so, you know, our acupuncturist or our chiropractor, and then, you know, we'll chat and they'll say, like, you know, maybe it would be good if you saw Matt or you saw, you know, one of the other practitioners.
Matt Meyer:So it is a very team setting, and it's, you know, you definitely have to put your ego at the door and you have to be.
Matt Meyer:You can't be the only person you have to really look at.
Matt Meyer:Like, this is a.
Matt Meyer:This is really a team approach of helping these.
Matt Meyer:These guys and girls get.
Matt Meyer:Get better, whether, you know, whether or what that is.
Matt Meyer:So that's.
Matt Meyer:That's a cool part, but you do have to be a team player.
Matt Meyer:That's.
Matt Meyer:That's for sure.
Matt Meyer:If not, you'll find yourself out the door fast.
Todd:Yeah, that's crazy.
Todd:So you're just constantly working with these dudes and you've been doing this for how many years now?
Matt Meyer:15 years.
Matt Meyer:15 years.
Matt Meyer:So it's.
Matt Meyer:Yeah, it's been pretty cool.
Matt Meyer:Football, lacrosse, baseball, hockey.
Matt Meyer:I actually been working with a paralympic athlete who's in Paris right now who's going to be running this weekend for the Paris Olympics, which is really cool.
Matt Meyer:So, yeah, I've had lots of cool, different athletes I've worked with, and then also a lot of.
Matt Meyer:I work with some, like, law enforcement to, like, border patrol, their tactical units, some of the state police, some of their, like, higher end, you know, like kind of like SWAT special ops guys, which is cool.
Matt Meyer:Very similar, same drive.
Matt Meyer:They're beat up, you know, and helping them out in different capacities.
Matt Meyer:What I do is great, too.
Todd:That's awesome.
Todd:And so have you come up against any of these athletes who.
Todd:Okay, I already know the answer to this question.
Todd:I know that you've had to have come up against athletes who are resistant to whether it's the story work or whether it's an ice bath or infrared light, red light.
Todd:Like, how might you kind of address some of these.
Todd:These hesitations towards these modalities?
Matt Meyer:You know what?
Matt Meyer:It's all.
Matt Meyer:I feel like it's how you approach it.
Matt Meyer:And one of the things I think that sometimes it's not hesitancy, it's you can get overwhelmed really fast.
Matt Meyer:So there's so much out there now, too.
Matt Meyer:And not only, like, in the community, but within these facilities.
Matt Meyer:I mean, they have cryo chambers and light beds and all this crazy stuff.
Matt Meyer:Sometimes it's more of, like, overwhelming.
Matt Meyer:Like, what do I do?
Matt Meyer:So, you know, they have amazing staff, too, that, like, help guide people in the right direction.
Matt Meyer:But, you know, my thing is always like, you know, what do you need right now?
Matt Meyer:Do you need recovery?
Matt Meyer:You know, do you need kind of figure, let's figure out what you need right now, and then help them and say, hey, you know, I think you should.
Matt Meyer:It'd be great if you did some, you know, acupuncture and then maybe checked in and did some, you know, cold and hot therapy.
Matt Meyer:Most of the things, too are.
Matt Meyer:Are great because it's hard to err on them.
Matt Meyer:You know, if you did a cold plunge before you did the sauna, like, it's going to be okay.
Matt Meyer:I think, like, not getting paralyzed by all of the stuff is a factor.
Matt Meyer:And just teaching, like, all these things are good.
Matt Meyer:It's just trying to figure out what fits into your schedule and what you can do.
Matt Meyer:And there's some people.
Matt Meyer:There's some people that love being in heat.
Matt Meyer:There's some people that hate being in the cold.
Matt Meyer:So it's like, how can you leverage all these different modalities?
Matt Meyer:And some athletes are very sensitive about what they want and what they don't want.
Matt Meyer:Some will never get adjusted by the chiropractor before the game, only after.
Matt Meyer:And there's some players that have to get adjusted, you know, or there's some players that will want this type of body work or stretching before a game and not after.
Matt Meyer:So it's really an individual factor.
Matt Meyer:I mean, there's a lot of superstition in professional sports, too.
Matt Meyer:You know, a lot of the guys, they eat the same thing.
Matt Meyer:Even if the, even if they know they're not supposed to, it's like, they're going to eat this, they're going to eat that.
Matt Meyer:Um, you know, I worked with an athlete that he would only eat, like, green, sour patch kids.
Matt Meyer:Sour patch kids are apparently, like a big, like, pregame thing.
Matt Meyer:They're quick sugar anyway, but only eat green ones.
Matt Meyer:So there's a lot of, there's a lot of, like, funny superstitions or, you know, they only want the, they only want the orange Gatorade or this.
Matt Meyer:So a lot of the time is just, you know, is not taking it too seriously.
Matt Meyer:Just, you know, giving some knowledge, pointing them in the right direction.
Matt Meyer:That's, that's the best thing you can do.
Todd:And how do you approach the story work if someone's not knowing that you do story work, if someone's coming to you for the physical work, how might you wedge in some of that?
Todd:Like, hey, I do story work.
Matt Meyer:Yeah.
Matt Meyer:So that's been a, that's been something I worked through.
Matt Meyer:So, like, at my, I in my studio here, like, I have, I have a few things up on the wall.
Matt Meyer:Like, there's what we call, like, the soft talk words.
Matt Meyer:So I have a plaque that has these words, like, probably, maybe, I guess these words.
Matt Meyer:So I have it right there.
Matt Meyer:So a lot of times people will be like, oh, what's that?
Matt Meyer:And I'll say, well, you know, those are what we call soft talk.
Matt Meyer:And soft talk is when, you know, we're using these words and it creates some hesitancy.
Matt Meyer:You know, if I said, hey, Todd, I'm going to be in town in December, you know, do you want to go out to dinner?
Matt Meyer:And you said, yeah, probably I could, I could.
Matt Meyer:Let me, let me look at that.
Matt Meyer:My schedule, maybe that could work.
Matt Meyer:So even though you don't know that, you're kind of being wishy washy, like, my brain is registering that it's like, oh, maybe Todd doesn't want to hang out with me.
Matt Meyer:And you might even, that might not even be your intention.
Matt Meyer:So it starts with just those little words, you know, that, that injury to healing piece is something I use a lot when people walk in because that's pretty easy because most of the people I see have some type of injury.
Matt Meyer:So I say, you know, listen, you're not injured anymore.
Matt Meyer:You're healing.
Matt Meyer:So there's a few little things I've been trying to connect people with on that.
Matt Meyer:A lot of times I'll send, you know, if we're talking and the person's open, I'll send them a few podcasts that give a little, give a little, like, startup of what the enlifted method is and what the story work is.
Matt Meyer:And I'll say, hey, here's a 15 minutes podcast.
Matt Meyer:Listen to this, see if it resonates with you.
Matt Meyer:Doing workshops.
Matt Meyer:So I try to go out and do a few workshops at local, like crossfits and things like that.
Matt Meyer:And we do what we call language games, little, little games to talk about how language affects you and how changes, you know, and some people are, some people don't want anything to do with it, which is totally fine.
Matt Meyer:But you can usually tell when someone's inquisitive a little bit and they want to, they want to hear a little bit more.
Todd:That's crazy.
Todd:And so that's another thing that you have busted through imposter syndrome to be doing workshops now as well through story work.
Todd:Yeah, I was starting that up.
Todd:I mean, I can imagine.
Todd:Okay, I'm here.
Todd:We're ready.
Todd:Now I'm doing my first workshop.
Todd:Like, how'd that feel?
Matt Meyer:Yeah, I did that last fall.
Matt Meyer:I hosted a workshop and I got in front of everybody.
Matt Meyer:We did some of these language games and some of the work.
Matt Meyer:And, yeah, I mean, it was amazing.
Matt Meyer:One of the big things is you just have to do it right.
Matt Meyer:You just have to do it, do the thing.
Matt Meyer:You can get paralyzed by, like I said, almost collecting all of these certifications, and it's like, I need another certification and I need this and I need that.
Matt Meyer:A lot of times you just need some clarity and you just need to do the thing and start there.
Matt Meyer:So I was guilty of that as well, just collecting all of this knowledge and information and then just trying to regurgitate it.
Matt Meyer:And I learned that's not the way to do it, at least for me.
Todd:Yeah, that's what I've been learning through doing this podcast.
Todd:Honestly, I was going straight into my master's degree, planning on going straight into my PhD in six months from now or so, six to eight months.
Todd:And I'm like, oh, man, what am I, am I doing that?
Todd:Am I in that cycle of just acquiring a bunch of knowledge and not actually getting out there in the world?
Todd:And so this has been really good for me to have these conversations and then have that reiterated through different people, you know, but also, this is kind of getting out in the world through being able to talk about these things out in public, which is nice, you know?
Matt Meyer:Yeah, absolutely.
Matt Meyer:I mean, podcasting to me is, it's, you know, I think I stole this quote from somebody, but it's kind of the last, like socratic piece that we have in culture where it's this unedited conversation, typically, you know, unless you're like an ABC News and you have sponsored.
Matt Meyer:But, you know, like Rogan and stuff.
Matt Meyer:I mean, he's 3 hours.
Matt Meyer:It's a just talk.
Matt Meyer:And sometimes it goes over here, sometimes it goes over there, but it's true conversation and it's back and forth and it's like, oh, hey, maybe I didn't understand that.
Matt Meyer:We've lost a lot of that, too.
Matt Meyer:So podcasting in this form is still not been.
Matt Meyer:It's still under the radar in a way where it's not being edited and censored.
Matt Meyer:I think that's.
Matt Meyer:There's so much learning in that, you know, that's how humans.
Matt Meyer:That's how humans learn, you know, that's how they learned was they got together and, you know, even pre Greek, you know, they would get together and talk and they would sit by the fire, you know, they would native american tradition, you know, they would have sweat lodge and, you know, sometimes they would, you know, they would drink peyote tea and they would come to resolution.
Todd:See, that's what's so cool about the power of story work, because not only is it story so powerful in the stories that we're able to tell, and our power as a storyteller, whether it's through marketing, whether through its inspiration, you know, but then also becoming aware of the stories that we're telling ourselves and creating that awareness around that is like, is the entire thing is super awesome.
Todd:I love.
Todd:I love the story work.
Todd:I love telling stories.
Todd:I love being involved in this conversation, one to one.
Todd:It's amazing.
Todd:So I'm curious.
Todd:We're going to start to wrap it up here.
Todd:I'm curious what sort of advice you would have for people at home that are seeking to improve their holistic health, mind body connection, you know, movement patterns.
Todd:You know, you can kind of.
Todd:You've got a lot you could touch on.
Todd:So advice at home is kind of vague, but we're just going to leave it at that and kind of see what comes out.
Matt Meyer:Yeah, I always kind of go back to those.
Matt Meyer:Those principles that I talked about that I learned from Paul.
Matt Meyer:Check was what are the things that kind of those actionable items this low hanging fruit.
Matt Meyer:And sometimes when I have clients that come in that, you know, they haven't, they haven't exercised or moved in 40 years, and it's like they're, they're starting basic.
Matt Meyer:So it's like, how much water are you drinking?
Matt Meyer:You know, what's the quality of your water?
Matt Meyer:And, you know, and I've had people say, like, why don't drink water?
Matt Meyer:I drink diet soda.
Matt Meyer:And it's like, okay, so we're going to do is you drink eight diet sodas a day and like, this is real.
Matt Meyer:I'm, you know, this, this actually happens.
Matt Meyer:I said, we're going to switch out now and you're going to drink four diet sodas and you're going to have four glasses of really high quality water.
Matt Meyer:So, example, same thing, food.
Matt Meyer:It's like, just let's start switching your food.
Matt Meyer:You know, before you talk about diets and things like that, let's just try to switch to more of a whole food diet.
Matt Meyer:Let's try to cut out like, the processed food.
Matt Meyer:Baby steps when it comes to movement, too.
Matt Meyer:I mean, I have to prescribe walking for some people because they don't walk getting out in the sun.
Matt Meyer:I mean, I'm a very, I'm a big proponent of natural health.
Matt Meyer:So, you know, getting people to go for a 15 minutes walk, you know, outside or walk around their backyard with no shoes on, low hanging for sleep.
Matt Meyer:You know, my young athletes, I tell them this and it's like, ten to six is optimal sleeping time for humans.
Matt Meyer:10:00 p.m.
Matt Meyer: to: Matt Meyer:you know, ten to two is physical repair, two to six is psychological repair.
Matt Meyer:I, so if you have an athlete or a person that's going to bed at midnight, even if they sleep till eight, they're missing pieces of that.
Matt Meyer: start trying to go to bed at: Matt Meyer:There's just, it's really the low hanging fruit, you know, the, the movement and then the mindset, the thoughts and the words, you know, it's like, let's spend a couple minutes doing some four, seven, eight, breathe.
Matt Meyer:So I'll have, you know, I'll send them little YouTube videos.
Matt Meyer:I have a whole bunch of YouTube videos I probably take out.
Matt Meyer:The soft talk should do myself, but I haven't gotten there yet.
Matt Meyer:I have like 20 YouTube videos that I'll, I send people with like, alright, this is basic breathing.
Matt Meyer:This is, you know, your, your stretch for your ankle.
Matt Meyer:I want you to do it's just that slow process.
Matt Meyer:And I always tell people, too, like, this is a process that you have to be in for life, especially if it's not like a professional athlete and they have a game on Saturday and, you know, their shoulder is messed up.
Matt Meyer:Like, for the people that come in, I was like, this is a lifelong piece, so start aligning yourself with things that are good like that.
Matt Meyer:I have tons of books.
Matt Meyer:I recommend podcasts and things because I feel like if you create, start creating the environment, it's, you know, it's gonna be better.
Matt Meyer:Like, turning off the news.
Matt Meyer:Like when you.
Matt Meyer:If how many people, like, they eat and they watch the news.
Matt Meyer:I mean, you're just talking about, you know, getting into a high, sympathetic state while you're trying to digest food.
Matt Meyer:It's, it's, it's, it's not good.
Matt Meyer:So just a lot of little things that I've learned and trying to pad their, their day with that without overwhelming, because it's also very easy to get overwhelmed.
Matt Meyer:It's like, you know, you do a Google search and you're like, oh, great, meditation before bed.
Matt Meyer:It's like, yeah, like, holy crap.
Matt Meyer:So I try to be specific and I'll say, like, all right, these are three really good videos.
Matt Meyer:Start here, you know, so they don't get overwhelmed.
Matt Meyer:But that's really it.
Matt Meyer:It's like that low paying fruit, and then all of a sudden it's two weeks, three weeks, a month, a year, and they look back and like, wow, I feel better.
Matt Meyer:I'm moving better.
Matt Meyer:I don't have as much pain.
Matt Meyer:So that, to me, is the factor in the world of professional sports.
Matt Meyer:Sometimes you have to be.
Matt Meyer:It's not that easy because you have to get a specific outcome.
Matt Meyer:So sometimes you're taping things up and you're moving things and you're activating things so they can perform.
Matt Meyer:Very similar to the military community.
Matt Meyer:It's almost like you're going to have to deal with the stuff later to be able to go out and do what you need to do now.
Matt Meyer:Yeah.
Todd:So what would you say?
Todd:I know that everyone's different.
Todd:I know that all the athletes are coming to you with different issues.
Todd:What would you say that you find is most common?
Todd:That high performers are not doing that surprises you?
Matt Meyer:Oh, um.
Matt Meyer:That's a good.
Matt Meyer:That's a great question, actually.
Matt Meyer:I think.
Matt Meyer:I think it's the, the emotional, spiritual work that they're not doing that for whatever reason either.
Matt Meyer:They don't know what path to go down.
Matt Meyer:There's some fear of digging into those junk drawers, the physical stuff, usually the guys and girls are on top of it.
Matt Meyer:They have nutritionists, they're checking all those boxes.
Matt Meyer:The one thing that is interesting so is like, I'm a big proponent of float therapy.
Matt Meyer:So flotation tank therapy, and a lot of high performers, executives and athletes, to tell them that they're going to go in this float tank with no phone, no light, no sound for an hour and float, it's almost completely causes, it's just them thinking about that almost causes them anxiety.
Matt Meyer:So I think turning down the volume of everything and sitting, being with self in the quiet, which in itself can really open up a lot of things, but it's a world of constant inputs, input, so decreasing a few of those inputs to just sit, be quiet, you know, do something like flotation therapy, I think has a huge value and can make massive changes if you can get the people to do that same.
Matt Meyer:I mean, high executives, too.
Matt Meyer:I worked a lot of executives, physicians and stuff like that.
Matt Meyer:That's a big ask.
Todd:Yeah.
Todd:That was the perfect answer, honestly.
Todd:Yeah.
Todd:Get the constant stimulus that they're always under.
Todd:And a lot of these people make it to the top by being these people that are totally down to work hard, totally down to fill up their schedule with whatever it is that they need to do.
Todd:Not necessarily totally down to just sit and be with themselves and do nothing.
Matt Meyer:Yeah, that's tough.
Matt Meyer:That's tough.
Matt Meyer:I mean, Bruce Lee said, doing no thing is important.
Matt Meyer:Doing nothing.
Todd:That's awesome.
Todd:That's awesome.
Todd:Hello, Bruce Lee.
Todd:Okay, so I'm curious then, you mentioned that you have lots of books and stuff that you can recommend.
Todd:Books, podcasts and stuff.
Todd:This would be the time to do that, I always ask, I guess so if you have some sort of basic stuff around anything that has really changed your lives or athletes lives.
Matt Meyer:Absolutely.
Matt Meyer:So my bible that I call it that every person that I run into and I'll say, listen, I see you once, or I'm going to see you.
Matt Meyer:I've had clients I've worked with for over 15 years.
Matt Meyer:It's Paul Check's book, how to eat, move, and be healthy.
Matt Meyer:So that book changed my life, actually.
Matt Meyer:In Arizona on vacation, about 20, I think it's the 20th anniversary print of that book.
Matt Meyer:That book is the most thought out but simple way to navigate all of those things.
Matt Meyer:I talked about, movement, nutrition, sleep recovery.
Matt Meyer:You know, it's actually a workbook, which is really cool.
Matt Meyer:So there's some really simple questionnaires you fill out, and then based on your questionnaires it gives you a little roadmap, you know, for $22 on Amazon, I think that is, you know, that, that checks all the boxes.
Matt Meyer:I have a really?
Matt Meyer:Yeah, I mean, I have a huge library stuff, but that to me, is like, that, that's, that's amazing.
Matt Meyer:That's, that's a baseline, you know, podcasts and stuff.
Matt Meyer:I'll sometimes, I'll recommend certain episodes of podcasts, like, depending on what the person wants.
Matt Meyer:So that's kind of a big conversation in it, in and of itself.
Matt Meyer:But it's finding those, you know, finding those likes in those things that you're interested in and kind of, you know, going from there, you know, like the Huberman podcast and stuff gets into a human performance, you know, Peter Attia, there's so many, there's so many great, there's so many great things out there.
Matt Meyer:So.
Matt Meyer:But I've realized, too, I'm very careful about getting leading people down the rabbit hole because I love rabbit holes and I go down rabbit holes, but I have to be careful not to carry people with me because they'll be like, whoa, what is this?
Matt Meyer:You know, I'm going deep here.
Matt Meyer:So, you know, I'll recommend certain podcasts and stuff kind of based on the individual, and say, all right, this is a great, this is a great podcast.
Matt Meyer:This is a great book.
Matt Meyer:But the Paul check one is definitely, I mean, every person, literally athlete, non athlete executive could benefit from that.
Matt Meyer:That was a life changing book for me.
Todd:That's awesome.
Todd:Just, does he talk about any of the, like, the cranial sacral stuff?
Todd:Because obviously that caught my attention.
Todd:I'm curious about some of that stuff.
Matt Meyer:I know he's a big proponent of that.
Matt Meyer:Like, in some of his, his courses in the work he does.
Matt Meyer:He does a lot of hands on work, I don't know, in how to eat, move, and be healthy.
Matt Meyer:He's really trying to focus on things you can do at home.
Matt Meyer:So he teaches, like, these zone exercises, which he calls them zone, but they're actually chakra exercises, right?
Matt Meyer:So Paul's worked with some of the highest end athletes in the world, and sometimes when you say things like chakras, people are like, what?
Matt Meyer:Chakra?
Matt Meyer:So he renamed them zone exercises.
Matt Meyer:Right.
Matt Meyer:Cool.
Todd:Nice.
Matt Meyer:It's like, so qigong breathing.
Matt Meyer:So the book is really set up for, like, take it and start working something like cranial sacral therapy or some of the other work.
Matt Meyer:You have to have an external source to do that.
Matt Meyer:But I know he's a huge fan of that, and I'm sure practices it himself as well, personally.
Todd:That's awesome.
Todd:Yeah, I'm definitely gonna have to get that book.
Todd:I'm a huge fan of Paul shakes, and I watched a lot of his videos.
Todd:I take in things very well through audio format or video format, but I'm.
Todd:There's a roadmap in this book that sounds pretty awesome, honestly.
Todd:I'll have to check it out, so.
Todd:Thank you.
Matt Meyer:Yeah, like I said, it's really.
Matt Meyer:It's.
Matt Meyer:It's dumbed down.
Matt Meyer:I hate to say the word dumb, but it is as basic as you can get for that reason, to be able to touch a lot of people, a lot of things.
Matt Meyer:So.
Matt Meyer:Yeah.
Matt Meyer:So, shameless plug for Paul's book.
Matt Meyer:I probably.
Matt Meyer:I mean, I recommended that book.
Matt Meyer:No lie.
Matt Meyer:Probably a thousand times.
Todd:No, it's honestly perfect.
Todd:Yeah, I don't.
Todd:I don't think there's enough people in the world who know who Paul check is, so, honestly, I'm glad that we've been able to tag him.
Matt Meyer:Agree.
Todd:Okay, so now, final thing.
Todd:Where can they find you if they are curious about working with you?
Todd:Tag your socials, my website, whatever.
Todd:Whatever you got.
Todd:Whatever you want to share, probably.
Matt Meyer:The thing I use most is Instagram, so I usually.
Matt Meyer:I'm on there a couple times a day.
Matt Meyer:I don't post a lot of stuff, but I do.
Matt Meyer:I get plenty of people that message me through Instagram, so it's Matt Meyer, 911.
Matt Meyer:That's where I do all my work through, so feel free to send me a message.
Matt Meyer:I'm kind of revamping my website right now, and then I'm going to be relaunching my podcast, uh, this fall, also, uh, which would be pretty cool.
Matt Meyer:So I'll have that all linked in once I figure out how to do that or hire somebody to.
Todd:Yeah.
Todd:Heck, yeah.
Todd:Yeah.
Todd:And I'll put as much of that as I can on the screen for you to make it simple.
Matt Meyer:Yeah.
Todd:Awesome.
Todd:All right, brother.
Matt Meyer:Yeah.
Todd:Hey, thank.
Todd:Thank you for being on the show, man.
Todd:It was.
Todd:It was a great conversation, and I know that we could go even deeper on any of these topics, but I love the overall place that we were able to go with that.
Matt Meyer:Good.
Matt Meyer:Thank you.
Matt Meyer:Yeah.
Matt Meyer:It's been a pleasure talking with you and, you know, talking about the biz and sharing my own story.
Matt Meyer:And, you know, when I do my.
Matt Meyer:When I do my podcasts, I always say, like, if one person listens to it and can make an actionable change, it's like, it's worth all the work.
Todd:I think.
Todd:I think we're gonna rabbit hole some people, honestly.
Todd:But to me that's perfect.
Todd:We've introduced this, some awesome things and some actionable stuff as well.
Todd:Hopefully someone will pick up Paul check's book and get to work.
Todd:Thanks again.
Todd:Thank you for being here.
Todd:Thank you everybody for watching.
Todd:And you take care.
Todd:Thank you.
