Episode 17

Break Through Barriers: How Wilton Atkins Built a Business on Mental Coaching

Wilton Atkins is a mental performance coach who has worked with professional sport teams, Olympians, and businesses to help them expand their potential. He has over 20 years of experience coaching from where he grew up in New Zealand to Arizona, New Mexico, and now internationally via remote work. This has allowed Wilton the freedom to travel and move his family to Thailand.

He is also the founder of the Mental Skills Institute where he condenses over 50 courses, he has taken into a comprehensive course of his own to help other mental performance coaches and athletes, while seeking to expand and diversify the courses offered.

Wilton was a former tennis player and cross-country athlete who also made it to premier league Rugby in New Zealand. He has more recently won the Tough Guy and Tough Gal event in New Zealand and the Spartan Race in Phuket, Thailand.


Finally, he has teamed up with his wife an occupational therapist to write a series of children books based around personal development themes such as agency/ownership, theory of mind/perspectives, empathy, emotional intelligence, growth mindset and more. It was a pleasure having Wilton on the show!


Takeaways:

  • Creating a growth mindset allows individuals to view failure as feedback rather than defeat, enhancing resilience.
  • Designing your environment and accountability systems is crucial for long-term success and personal growth.
  • Understanding one's values and motivations is essential for making decisions that align with personal goals.
  • Cultivating emotional intelligence and empathy can significantly improve relationships and overall well-being.
  • Agency and personal responsibility empower individuals to take control of their actions and outcomes in life.
  • Encouraging children to engage with personal development concepts can foster their emotional and social skills early on.
Transcript
Wilton Atkins:

Most people would go through their whole life with not figuring out what they actually want.

Wilton Atkins:

The best psychologist in the world trying to distract us.

Wilton Atkins:

We need to have that routine in place.

Wilton Atkins:

So you need to design your environment and your accountability loops so all of these things are locked in place outside of the work environment.

Wilton Atkins:

You need to be great in that area too, so you can have a sustainable family life and great friendships and relationships.

Wilton Atkins:

If they had a growth mindset, they would realize that there's no failure, only feedback.

Wilton Atkins:

It's okay if you screw up growth mindset.

Wilton Atkins:

You're just going to get better through it next time.

Wilton Atkins:

You're just going to get better at performing in these few moments.

Todd:

Welcome to the evolving potential podcast.

Todd:

This is episode number 17.

Todd:

Today I have on the show Wilton Atkins.

Todd:

Wilton is a mental performance coach who has worked with professional sports teams, Olympians and businesses to help expand their potential.

Todd:

He has over 20 years of coaching experience from new Zealand, where he grew up, to the US, including my home state of Arizona, here to his new home in Phuket, Thailand and internationally.

Todd:

Online, he creates mental skills courses utilizing more than 50 courses he's taken into a simple framework and is the co founder and director of the Mental Skills Institute where he's able to draw on his experience as a former college athlete in tennis and cross country, as well as a premier grade rugby player in New Zealand.

Todd:

More recently, he's won the spartan race in Phuket, Thailand and the tough guy in Gal event in New Zealand and has become the father of two children.

Todd:

Finally, he's also written four children's books with a focus on personal development with his wife, a pediatric occupational therapist.

Todd:

Welcome to the show, Wilton.

Wilton Atkins:

Thank you, Todd.

Wilton Atkins:

Appreciate it.

Wilton Atkins:

Happy to be here, buddy.

Todd:

Absolutely, man.

Todd:

So I want to first jump into the journey into mental performance coaching.

Todd:

So what has led you to focus on mental performance coaching and particularly with, like, sports people and corporate corporate professionals?

Wilton Atkins:

Yes.

Wilton Atkins:

So I think my journey may be similar to a lot of people.

Wilton Atkins:

I didn't discover mental performance till a little bit later on in my life.

Wilton Atkins:

So for me, I lived sort of most of my life up until late twenties, almost unaware of the need for mental performance.

Wilton Atkins:

So I kind of stumbled upon it by accident.

Wilton Atkins:

So my tennis career, rugby career and track and field career was all pretty much unaware without any mental performance tools, nobody taught me these things, so.

Wilton Atkins:

And to a certain extent, maybe I wasn't ready or open to it.

Wilton Atkins:

For example, you know, being a young man, I probably wasn't mature.

Wilton Atkins:

I didn't mature until a little bit later.

Wilton Atkins:

And the other thing I would say is, maybe a lot of coaches weren't equipped to help people in this way.

Wilton Atkins:

So as a result, I wasn't exposed to mental performance until quite late, and I'd stumbled upon it by accident, really.

Wilton Atkins:

And it was through something that happened to my wife, a really dramatic, life changing thing for her.

Wilton Atkins:

So I'm not sure if I told you in the past, but my wife Mirren, had debilitating chronic illness for almost a decade.

Wilton Atkins:

And so we're talking about chronic fatigue, daily body aches, daily migraines, daily nausea, and this debilitating fatigue where she wasn't able to work full time, she wasn't able to.

Wilton Atkins:

Doctors told her she'd have to live with this for her whole life, she wouldn't be able to have kids, and basically just had to manage through this disease.

Wilton Atkins:

So multiple medical doctors and other experts said, you know, you just got to work through this.

Wilton Atkins:

You've got to manage these symptoms for the rest of your life, et cetera, et cetera.

Wilton Atkins:

So, you know, she was my girlfriend at this time, and we wanted.

Wilton Atkins:

We're willing to try anything.

Wilton Atkins:

So she ended up going to a course in Auckland, and it was a coaching course, a three day course, and it taught her the tools about how to coach herself and reduce the stress response of the mind body connection.

Wilton Atkins:

So I thought nothing of it.

Wilton Atkins:

So just give it a go, see what happens.

Wilton Atkins:

But, you know, when she came back from that weekend, almost a different person.

Wilton Atkins:

So because of the stress response, she also was gluten intolerant.

Wilton Atkins:

She had a medical diagnosis for gluten intolerance.

Wilton Atkins:

The course allowed her to reduce her stress response to now eat gluten.

Wilton Atkins:

The daily headaches and body aches went away.

Wilton Atkins:

She was able to exercise without crippling body aches and fatigue.

Wilton Atkins:

So, like, two weekends after that, we were hiking a mountain in the Milford sound, and she got her life back.

Wilton Atkins:

We were able to travel successfully, have a family, all of these things.

Wilton Atkins:

It would be odd for me not to be curious about a situation like this.

Wilton Atkins:

So it was so dramatic for her.

Wilton Atkins:

She got her life back.

Wilton Atkins:

Amazing.

Wilton Atkins:

And we don't even really acknowledge it now, but, you know, we were just talking about it recently.

Wilton Atkins:

We should really celebrate this every year, but it's just a distant memory now.

Wilton Atkins:

It happened about ten years ago, but, yeah, that was really the catalyst for me to understand that, hey, maybe there is something to this.

Wilton Atkins:

So that's when I delved into this whole world.

Wilton Atkins:

Before that, I was a coach.

Wilton Atkins:

I was a decent coach, a decent tennis coach working with kids and adults.

Wilton Atkins:

But now it's taken my coaching to a whole new level, a whole different direction.

Wilton Atkins:

I don't focus on chronic illness.

Wilton Atkins:

I think there's other people that are more interested in that aspect.

Wilton Atkins:

I thought, how can I use similar principles and develop my own to help people with performance, whether it be in the workplace or in a sporting capacity or just in the general life?

Wilton Atkins:

So that's where I focused my attention as I've applied and learned a lot of these tools.

Wilton Atkins:

But, yeah, that was, for me, how I basically accidentally delved into this world.

Wilton Atkins:

And you know what?

Wilton Atkins:

It's a blessing.

Wilton Atkins:

It was terrible what happened to my wife back then and many others.

Wilton Atkins:

But, yeah, for me, that was a huge, significant change for us.

Wilton Atkins:

And I basically dedicated the rest of my life to this avenue.

Todd:

Now, that's crazy.

Todd:

So she went and did her certification had a profound change.

Todd:

You got very interested in figuring out what she had learned, what she had figured out, and then you went to go get this certification as well.

Wilton Atkins:

Yeah, so I didn't do that specific certification, but I did certifications and things of similar principles.

Wilton Atkins:

So I'm trained in coaching, sports medicine, sports psychology, which all has some valuable tools, but they don't really go into depth about some of the concepts that are talked about.

Wilton Atkins:

So I got into a little bit of, because I'm a science based person, I was like, okay, this needs to be backed up by evidence.

Wilton Atkins:

Right?

Wilton Atkins:

So I delved into a little bit of the research behind it and for me to be able to believe it, and I thought, yeah, actually there is something to this.

Wilton Atkins:

It's not really talked about.

Wilton Atkins:

So, yeah, I did a whole range.

Wilton Atkins:

I wanted to, Matt, maybe a little bit like you.

Wilton Atkins:

I like to tick all the boxes and check the evidence to see if this is evidence based and practical.

Wilton Atkins:

And it was.

Wilton Atkins:

So it just got me interested in a whole range of different modalities.

Wilton Atkins:

Right.

Wilton Atkins:

So I love the positive psychology, I love the NLP, I love hypnotherapy or visualization, stoic philosophy.

Wilton Atkins:

There's a whole range and they are all very similar.

Wilton Atkins:

They cross over and they all start telling the same story.

Wilton Atkins:

So if you round out your learning in a whole bunch of different modalities, you can become a really successful coach that can coach anybody.

Wilton Atkins:

So whilst it got me curious about what happened with my wife, I didn't necessarily focus on that.

Wilton Atkins:

It just took me down different rabbit holes to basically upskill my learning as a coach in a whole different array of areas.

Todd:

Yeah.

Todd:

So you had normal clients still like your tennis clients or whatever, and you started applying some of these mental things to the sessions and then did you see profound results in them as well, which is what kind of started shifting you into wanting to do just the mental stuff.

Wilton Atkins:

Yeah, exactly.

Wilton Atkins:

So, well, for me, I mean, I love tennis coaching, but I think that's just working on somebody's tennis.

Wilton Atkins:

Eventually, for me, I want to be helping someone in their life, in tennis, but also outside of tennis.

Wilton Atkins:

I want them to have a successful life, a career after tennis.

Wilton Atkins:

I want them to have a successful, healthy home life, and I want them to have an unbelievable mindset.

Wilton Atkins:

So tennis was awesome because it's a very.

Wilton Atkins:

I got to trial it on so many different clients so I could have the same conversation and get a lot of reps in talking about these concepts.

Wilton Atkins:

So I could sort of fine tune my philosophies, techniques on people, like, as like a trial and error.

Wilton Atkins:

So it was almost a bit of a luxury for me to have that career path as well.

Wilton Atkins:

But eventually tennis was just a way for me to have these conversations with more and more people.

Wilton Atkins:

But, yeah, my, I still have a few tennis clients, but for me, I'm more fulfilled helping somebody in a more holistic way.

Todd:

Nice.

Todd:

And so when did you decide, like, I want to build a business around this.

Todd:

I want to call myself a mental skills coach or a mental performance coach.

Todd:

How did that kind of transpire?

Wilton Atkins:

Yes.

Wilton Atkins:

So I had that plan quite early on, but you've got to be a little bit of a realist around finances.

Wilton Atkins:

So, for example, at the time, we were trying to build a some assets.

Wilton Atkins:

So when you go full time self employed, it's quite difficult to get bank loans because you need to have your financials laid out for three years.

Wilton Atkins:

So it was not a pragmatic move to go to early.

Wilton Atkins:

So at the start, I was just doing it as a side hustle on top of my corporate career, mainly from a pragmatic point of view.

Wilton Atkins:

But when the time was right, it was always the plan to build a business around a lifestyle business where I could go anywhere.

Wilton Atkins:

So it was just a matter of time before we were able to pull that off.

Wilton Atkins:

And it's not that easy, but that was our goal, that was our vision, and that's what we thought was really important for both for our family.

Todd:

Wow.

Todd:

So how did you face some of the potential imposter syndrome that you've dealt with from switching into something that is more soft?

Todd:

It's a soft skill.

Todd:

We're moving from tennis skills to now mental skills, and now you're calling yourself a mental performance coach.

Todd:

This is something that's new, something that a lot of people don't understand.

Todd:

And so I have to wonder how you might have dealt with, like, okay, now I'm calling myself a mental skills coach.

Todd:

Am I.

Todd:

Am I qualified to be that?

Todd:

You know, obviously probably did some certifications to give yourself that mindset of like, yes, I'm qualified to do this, but I feel like a lot of people would deal with some imposter syndrome going through a transition like that.

Wilton Atkins:

Yeah, I.

Wilton Atkins:

Yeah.

Wilton Atkins:

So it comes into everything that I teach, really.

Wilton Atkins:

So, for example, the courses that I teach, I also apply to my own life.

Wilton Atkins:

So I have a whole bunch of principles that I live by that allows me to smash through anything like imposter syndrome, but definitely around imposter syndrome, it's a normal human response.

Wilton Atkins:

A few years back, I went to a talk with the All Blacks, New Zealand All Blacks rugby team mental skills coach, a guy called Gilbert Anoka.

Wilton Atkins:

Interestingly, he said that he'd never met or coached an All Black that didn't suffer from imposter syndrome.

Wilton Atkins:

So that's the first point.

Wilton Atkins:

It realized that everybody has it, or if they don't have it, they're probably just not admitting that they hammer.

Wilton Atkins:

So it's a normal human response.

Wilton Atkins:

And the other philosophy that I have on life is nobody has all the answers.

Wilton Atkins:

We're all winging it to some point.

Wilton Atkins:

Nobody has this set plan and it's going to follow through.

Wilton Atkins:

So, I mean, if you look right now, you've got the us elections coming on, coming up, neither of the leaders of the two main political parties have it all figured out.

Wilton Atkins:

To a certain extent, they're just winging it and making it up as they go, as they're going along, they don't have all the answers to foreign policy, economic policy, social policy.

Wilton Atkins:

You can't know everything.

Wilton Atkins:

So if you understand that we're all winging it and you understand that everyone has impostor syndrome, then you're really going to realize it's not actually that big of a deal.

Wilton Atkins:

So that that's the first belief that I have around it.

Wilton Atkins:

And the other thing I would say.

Wilton Atkins:

Yeah, yeah.

Wilton Atkins:

And the other thing I would say is, because everybody has imposter syndrome, or limiting beliefs, varying degrees, I would reframe it as a way to, if everybody has it and you are able to smash through it, then you are being able to stand out and dominate.

Wilton Atkins:

You're going to be able to set yourself apart from the opportunity.

Wilton Atkins:

So rather than it being a crippling self doubt.

Wilton Atkins:

That's like, okay, it's an opportunity for if I'm the one, and if our family is the one that can defeat it, then we will win.

Wilton Atkins:

Win being, whatever that means, be more successful.

Wilton Atkins:

So that's kind of the belief that I have around it.

Wilton Atkins:

And the other thing is, I'm quite clear.

Wilton Atkins:

And early on, and it's one of the key things that I teach, is understanding your clarity and motivation for things.

Wilton Atkins:

So if you have clarity, then you have a pull factor, and that's that.

Wilton Atkins:

Pulling motivation.

Wilton Atkins:

So that's the first part.

Wilton Atkins:

So, for me, getting clear on what I valued and getting clear on what was important and vision meant that any type of resistance, like a limiting belief or imposter syndrome, is.

Wilton Atkins:

Is easily overcome by what, knowing who you are and knowing what you value.

Wilton Atkins:

So, I think, for me, getting clear on my values, I knew one of my values was growth, and I knew one of my values was contribution and service.

Wilton Atkins:

So, yeah, if I'm true to that value and if I true to what I'm wanting to do with my life, then limiting beliefs are easily broken through, because you can see what you're trying to accomplish and you know what your values are.

Wilton Atkins:

So I think with clarity, the imposter syndrome, or beliefs is easily.

Wilton Atkins:

So it's easily defeated.

Todd:

Yeah.

Wilton Atkins:

And I think the other thing, I would say it's one of the sexy.

Wilton Atkins:

The first pillar that I teach is, other than clarity and motivation is mindset.

Wilton Atkins:

So I've sort of simplified it down, keeping things really simple.

Wilton Atkins:

I really only see two key mindsets.

Wilton Atkins:

There's a lot of different mindsets out there, but they come into sort of two main things.

Wilton Atkins:

And the.

Wilton Atkins:

The first one is having true agency.

Wilton Atkins:

So, basically what agency means is that you are responsible and accountable for yourself.

Wilton Atkins:

So if you're responsible and accountable for yourself, you don't make excuses and you're not a victim.

Wilton Atkins:

So the opposite of having agency is making excuses and being a victim.

Wilton Atkins:

But we, you know, sometimes being a victim is valid, but a healthier way, in a more practical way, is having remembering agency.

Wilton Atkins:

So, yes, there's negative factors, like some bad beliefs that, like limiting beliefs or imposter syndromes that creep in.

Wilton Atkins:

But if you remember, you need to take control of agency.

Wilton Atkins:

So, for example, I think Jonathan Hyde talks about agency in a different way.

Wilton Atkins:

He talks about it in.

Wilton Atkins:

That's the social psychologist from NYU.

Wilton Atkins:

He talks about it, the elephant and the Rider.

Wilton Atkins:

So the elephant is not having agency, but the Rider is agency.

Wilton Atkins:

You've got to remember that you are the rider.

Wilton Atkins:

So if you are the riderhood, then you're responsible for what you're going to do.

Wilton Atkins:

And you're also with that responsibility.

Wilton Atkins:

It also automatically means you're probably going to accept things if things don't go well.

Wilton Atkins:

So responsibility and agency also equals acceptance.

Wilton Atkins:

So it's not.

Wilton Atkins:

It's in it.

Wilton Atkins:

You're in.

Wilton Atkins:

You're in an empowered state as well.

Wilton Atkins:

So if things don't go perfectly, it's okay because you're in that empowered state, you accept it and doesn't cripple you.

Wilton Atkins:

Does that make sense?

Todd:

It does, absolutely.

Todd:

Yeah.

Todd:

And I'd like to touch on both of those.

Todd:

We know first being clarity and motivation.

Todd:

It's like if someone watching this is curious on doing a similar process as you've done and figuring out what is important to me, what do I value?

Todd:

You know, kind of who am I and how do I develop a motivation that will pull me rather than push me?

Todd:

What advice do you have for people to develop that for themselves?

Wilton Atkins:

Yeah, it's so important.

Wilton Atkins:

And the beauty about that is it's not the same for everybody.

Wilton Atkins:

Yours will be different to mine.

Wilton Atkins:

Your wife's might be different to yours, but having the awareness of it is.

Wilton Atkins:

And you're going to have a better relationship because you know what motivates your wife.

Wilton Atkins:

I know what motivates my wife, and we help each other and we're moving forward together.

Wilton Atkins:

And same with the people we work with, same with any team that you're a part of.

Wilton Atkins:

So how do you do it?

Wilton Atkins:

There's lots of amazing ways to do it, but I think the first part is just getting clear on where your gaps are, right.

Wilton Atkins:

So it's something really simple, like a wheel of life exercise.

Wilton Atkins:

Something is like, okay, where am I weak and where am I strong, and what's the most important to me?

Wilton Atkins:

So if I'm weak in this area here, let's say I'm weak in my relationships, I want to upskill in this area.

Wilton Atkins:

Or if I'm weak in my finances, I want to upskill in this area.

Wilton Atkins:

So that's your wheel of life.

Wilton Atkins:

You kind of need to.

Wilton Atkins:

It's a general basic assessment of where you're at, seeing where any gaps are, but also, more importantly, you need to figure out if these things are actually important to you.

Wilton Atkins:

So that's kind of understanding where your values are.

Wilton Atkins:

So there's something called a values elicitation.

Wilton Atkins:

And now with a values elicitation, it needs to be done with a.

Wilton Atkins:

With a coach who is familiar with this concept, because a values elicitation is not really, you're not really thinking.

Wilton Atkins:

You need to get into a more relaxed state.

Wilton Atkins:

When you're doing a value solicitation, it's not something that necessarily you think logically about.

Wilton Atkins:

You need to get into sort of a state where you're really relaxed and comfortable in a deeper state, almost sort of delving into a little bit of the unconscious.

Wilton Atkins:

So these are more about true motivation.

Wilton Atkins:

So you need to sort of be comfortable to get into a state where it's like revealing some things that you don't typically think about in your day to day.

Wilton Atkins:

Because, I mean, everyone can have a life planned and think, this is what I'm going to do, this is my values or whatever.

Wilton Atkins:

But unless it's done in a way that you're not thinking logically, it might not be what you truly want, those deeper unconscious needs.

Wilton Atkins:

So that the values elicitation is a simple process, but to do it well takes a bit of time, takes a bit of skill to figure out if these things actually truly matter to you.

Wilton Atkins:

So basically what you're doing is you figuring out what your highest values are, and that's.

Wilton Atkins:

And figuring out why that is important to you.

Wilton Atkins:

And what purpose does that serve?

Wilton Atkins:

So let's say I value making money.

Wilton Atkins:

What value does that actually serve me?

Wilton Atkins:

I value money because I want freedom.

Wilton Atkins:

So freedom is my higher value.

Wilton Atkins:

So I need to set up a life for me that gave me freedom.

Wilton Atkins:

So I value growth, that allows me to contribute and serve more.

Wilton Atkins:

So it's not a logical process.

Wilton Atkins:

Let's say you value family, and what does that family provide you?

Wilton Atkins:

It provides you with love.

Wilton Atkins:

So it's a simple process, but it's a really compelling process.

Wilton Atkins:

And you can help sort of have some pillars of things that are important, helps you with your decision, your decision making.

Todd:

That's a really good, that's a really solid answer.

Todd:

So, wheel of life, for anybody who doesn't know, would be like each category be like family, relationships, you know, personal life, spiritual life, whatever.

Todd:

I.

Todd:

You have like a put those in a circle, and then each one kind of fills out a section of that pie, you know, and then if it's.

Todd:

If you had ten out of tens in each section, you'd have a perfect wheel.

Todd:

But most people will not, obviously.

Todd:

You know, we're going to have some shortcomings, whether it's financial shortcomings or, you know, spirituality shortcomings or relationship shortcomings, which are going to cause a little bit of a bumpy ride.

Todd:

Right?

Wilton Atkins:

Yeah.

Todd:

So getting people, to be very clear with that, and then getting people to put their, their values in order and figuring out, okay, yeah, I value family first, or I value finances first, or I value freedom first or whatever, and kind of aligning the, I guess, decisions they'd make in their daily life with, or the career path or whatever it may be with those values.

Todd:

So along the lines of, like, getting someone to a trans state, then it makes me curious, like, I mean, what, what would you ask someone, I guess, as a coach, to get someone to answer in a non logical way?

Todd:

Like if I was going to say finances, you know, and say freedom or whatever, it's like, how do you know that's not a logical response?

Todd:

Now, I'm just saying that because, you know, obviously that makes sense to me.

Todd:

I could use some extra money right now.

Todd:

I'm struggling financially or whatever.

Todd:

So you're getting someone to a trans state, which we can talk about in a second, like how to, how we might do that, which I think is kind of cool, but also like, how would you get, I guess, what questions would you ask someone to get them to elicit a response that would pull a deeper value from them that's not necessarily logical.

Wilton Atkins:

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Wilton Atkins:

Exactly.

Wilton Atkins:

Right.

Wilton Atkins:

So it sounds pretty woo woo.

Wilton Atkins:

What we're talking about, right?

Wilton Atkins:

Getting someone into a trance state, but it's a, it's a normal, like, it's a normal everyday thing, right?

Wilton Atkins:

We're in a trance state right before we go to sleep.

Wilton Atkins:

Some people call it like a different brainwave frequency, call it what you want, but it's a normal relaxed state.

Wilton Atkins:

So simple things like closing your eyes.

Wilton Atkins:

When you close your eyes, you're removing all of the other filters.

Wilton Atkins:

So now your focus is on yourself, deep breathing.

Wilton Atkins:

So just doing something like that is half the battle.

Wilton Atkins:

And then what you're getting yourself to do is, and it also goes into a little bit, one of the processes we do is like timeline, or like a timeline trance, or a future self visualization where you are basically closing your eyes, doing some deep breaths.

Wilton Atkins:

Doing that is you a lot more relaxed and comfortable.

Wilton Atkins:

And you also have to build rapport with the client.

Wilton Atkins:

If you walk into my office now, I want to get you to close your eyes and we're going to do this thing.

Wilton Atkins:

You won't trust me, you might not be comfortable.

Wilton Atkins:

So we've got to do some other things first to build that trust.

Wilton Atkins:

But it's a normal state.

Wilton Atkins:

For example, with the timeline technique, I take a simple process where you close your eyes, focus on your breath, try and relax your body down from the tips of your head all the way down to your tips of your toes.

Wilton Atkins:

Once they are relaxed in a more relaxed state, then what you can do is for that process, you can take them through a imaginary induction.

Wilton Atkins:

So it might be imagine yourself walking down a staircase or imagine yourself walking, going down an elevator, or imagine yourself on a beach.

Wilton Atkins:

And all that is doing right is getting them into the relaxed state.

Wilton Atkins:

So they're not thinking about what's going on here right now in the room.

Wilton Atkins:

They are fully using their imagination.

Wilton Atkins:

Things that they.

Wilton Atkins:

Most people will never do their whole life.

Wilton Atkins:

Most people would go through their whole life with not figuring out what they actually want.

Wilton Atkins:

So doing something like this is so one of the most powerful things you can do if you do it well.

Wilton Atkins:

So once you get into that relaxed state, there's a lot of different ways to do it, but basically counting backwards is one of them.

Wilton Atkins:

I would recommend anyone do a training in it to get a little bit more.

Wilton Atkins:

It might take a few days to really understand the skills, and then you actually have to practice it to get really good at it.

Wilton Atkins:

And the other thing is you need to be in that.

Wilton Atkins:

I don't want to use the word trance because it's an off putting thing for people.

Wilton Atkins:

You need to be in that relaxed state yourself as the coach in order to take your client through the process.

Wilton Atkins:

So you're doing it with them, really.

Wilton Atkins:

You're imagining yourself and that if you can do it for yourself first, you're literally just replicating that process for them.

Wilton Atkins:

And you know what, like, I.

Wilton Atkins:

What I'm sounding right now, if I was my, you know, 27 year old self saying what I'm saying right now, I would.

Wilton Atkins:

What are you going on about?

Wilton Atkins:

But, like, seriously.

Wilton Atkins:

But because of, like, what I said earlier about my wife, now I'm open to this stuff, and it's also helped change my life, so I have a lot more clarity in myself.

Wilton Atkins:

Take people through the same thing and now you can almost layer it into a really short conversation.

Wilton Atkins:

So I was actually doing a.

Wilton Atkins:

I was coaching somebody yesterday or not yesterday, last week, somebody that was going through some shifts in their career.

Wilton Atkins:

They weren't quite sure.

Wilton Atkins:

They just had a relationship breakup and they weren't quite sure what they wanted to do with themselves, where it was a academic route, the career route, all these types of things, right?

Wilton Atkins:

So now, without having to do some sort of like, full induction or formal process, you can sort of almost layer it into a normal conversation.

Wilton Atkins:

You just get them relaxed, get them to close their eyes, take them through a quick process and doesn't have to be any big sort of woo woo thing.

Wilton Atkins:

So it is a normal thing, but she'd never, ever considered doing it in her whole life before.

Wilton Atkins:

And she found the process to be really enlightening because I basically got her relaxed, closed her eyes, did a little bit of an induction with some breathing, imagined herself into what she wanted from five years from now.

Wilton Atkins:

And because she was in this state she wouldn't normally be in, she had some breakthroughs of what was actually truly important.

Wilton Atkins:

So I would encourage everybody who was like me and slight.

Wilton Atkins:

What are you on about?

Wilton Atkins:

Just to be.

Wilton Atkins:

I hope this conversation has maybe piqued your curiosity a little bit.

Wilton Atkins:

Otherwise, you often will go through life accidentally.

Wilton Atkins:

And you wake up.

Wilton Atkins:

You wake up when you're 70 years old, and it's like, why didn't I do what I wanted to do in my life?

Wilton Atkins:

You have to deliberately design and understand what's important.

Todd:

Yeah, I think that's crazy.

Todd:

Trying to differentiate what society tells us is important, what our parents tell us is important, what school tells us is important, you know, with what we actually believe is important to ourselves, to our own personality, to our own life experiences, tell those things.

Todd:

And so kind of allowing the conscious mind to shut off, you know, or shut down or just quiet it a little bit.

Todd:

To let that.

Todd:

To let that voice come through is like.

Todd:

That sounds like a really powerful process.

Wilton Atkins:

Wow.

Wilton Atkins:

Well, that's very wise words, actually.

Wilton Atkins:

I'm not surprised with your sociology background.

Wilton Atkins:

But just.

Wilton Atkins:

That's just piqued an idea that I had.

Wilton Atkins:

s for me, when I did it about:

Wilton Atkins:

So that is going against the grain.

Wilton Atkins:

Now, be more specific.

Wilton Atkins:

We just built a new house.

Wilton Atkins:

Designed and built a new dream house.

Wilton Atkins:

And we loved living there.

Wilton Atkins:

It was a great house.

Wilton Atkins:

And then I realized that one of my core values was freedom and contribution and growth.

Wilton Atkins:

It's like, okay, well, how do I get that?

Wilton Atkins:

And then now you start filtering for things that allow you freedom.

Wilton Atkins:

And what it was, was completely against the grain, as you see.

Wilton Atkins:

So we actually sold our house that we just planned and built that we really want to live in because it was not going to give us freedom.

Wilton Atkins:

And I had filtered now, you know, reticular activating system.

Wilton Atkins:

Basically, it's a mechanism in your brain that allows you to filter for things.

Wilton Atkins:

What's important to you.

Wilton Atkins:

We all have it.

Wilton Atkins:

It's a deep, deeper part primitive part of our brain.

Wilton Atkins:

And so for me, I now was filtering for this value of freedom and I found somebody that was able to offer this.

Wilton Atkins:

So it was a mortgage broker in Christchurch with his business partner, who were able, basically they were property investors that would help people with a different approach to real estate investment.

Wilton Atkins:

And we had this conversation with him and it was like, we can help you build a portfolio with this counterintuitive idea.

Wilton Atkins:

And the counterintuitive idea was simple principles of understanding how to accumulate equity and understanding how to make sure that the numbers from the bank stack up from a cash flow point of view.

Wilton Atkins:

So you could get finance and you also get a portfolio because you're accumulating equity rather than the family home, which is generally the nice home with the white picket fence, and it's beautiful to live in.

Wilton Atkins:

It's a different.

Wilton Atkins:

It's a different type of home when you're thinking to buy, to build a portfolio.

Wilton Atkins:

So you can't really do both at the same time.

Wilton Atkins:

So basically my point is, understanding my value of freedom allowed me to be counterintuitive in how we approached our life.

Wilton Atkins:

So now we are able to travel the world because we also able to accumulate our retirement plan a bit younger than what we normally would have done.

Wilton Atkins:

So that is the importance of being clear.

Wilton Atkins:

Another story around being clear is, you know, one of our visions was traveling.

Wilton Atkins:

And one of the places in the world I've never been was Asia.

Wilton Atkins:

So one of my visions was visiting Asia.

Wilton Atkins:

So there's no coincidence that when we spoke to people that had lived and worked in Asia, we started to network with them.

Wilton Atkins:

So we were actually on a cheer lift on a ski field in New Zealand and we struck up a conversation on a two minute cheerlift ride and built a relationship with them that helped us find out what's it like on opportunities in Thailand.

Wilton Atkins:

So these are the types of things that can be clear when you're clear on what your vision is.

Wilton Atkins:

Similarly, one of my vision is also making the importance of my health and fitness.

Wilton Atkins:

So I'm getting a bit older now.

Wilton Atkins:

I need to prioritize that.

Wilton Atkins:

So that's a value.

Wilton Atkins:

It's also my vision.

Wilton Atkins:

So I'm now filtering for opportunities to do these things.

Wilton Atkins:

So one of my visions was, I even have a vision board, right?

Wilton Atkins:

So vision board is not an accidental, it's not some weird I toy, like cute toy that doesn't work.

Wilton Atkins:

If you apply and see it, you do it.

Wilton Atkins:

So on my vision board, I put it on a few years back about health and fitness in Asia when we moved here.

Wilton Atkins:

And interestingly enough, the photo that I put on was of the spartan race.

Wilton Atkins:

So I didn't even remember that I put that on the vision board.

Wilton Atkins:

But actually, it was the spartan race that I entered last year, so it's.

Wilton Atkins:

Okay.

Wilton Atkins:

So now I'm designing.

Wilton Atkins:

I'm designing what I want to do with.

Wilton Atkins:

Through the reticular activating system and knowing what's important.

Todd:

And that's the race that you ended up winning.

Wilton Atkins:

Yeah.

Wilton Atkins:

Yeah.

Todd:

That's crazy.

Todd:

That's crazy.

Wilton Atkins:

Yeah.

Todd:

Yeah.

Todd:

Cool.

Wilton Atkins:

Yeah, exactly.

Wilton Atkins:

So I guess the main point is not, I'm nothing bragging about the spartan race or anything, or cash flow or anything like that.

Wilton Atkins:

All I'm saying is a life doesn't occur without being.

Wilton Atkins:

Without having clarity and direction.

Todd:

Yeah.

Todd:

So makes perfect sense.

Todd:

I mean, the reticular activation system.

Todd:

So for you to sit there and know, like, okay, freedom's important to you, as opposed to maybe another person thinks it's finances, they're looking for any sort of financial opportunity that might limit their freedom because they're not realizing that's important.

Todd:

Okay.

Todd:

Now I'm going to take 80 hours a week of work, you know what I mean?

Todd:

As opposed to, like, I'm going to find something that's going to allow me to travel the world and work online and do these things, because I know that while finances are important, I think freedom is even more important to me.

Todd:

And so I'm going to look out for those opportunities.

Wilton Atkins:

Beautifully put.

Wilton Atkins:

Exactly right.

Wilton Atkins:

Or a career change.

Wilton Atkins:

So what's your value?

Wilton Atkins:

What is your value?

Wilton Atkins:

Are you in the right job or how can you apply your value to your current job?

Todd:

Yeah.

Todd:

Making sure that you're seeing it in the right way.

Wilton Atkins:

Yeah, exactly.

Todd:

Are there any other stories that you can share of someone having success with the mental performance skill, you know, coaching or the mental skills training that's, like, significantly impacted their life or their performance?

Wilton Atkins:

Some of the best stories I have aren't even sport related.

Wilton Atkins:

When somebody has just got through something that is of challenge to them and it allowed them to see things in a different way, push through things and put themselves out there again.

Wilton Atkins:

But I mean, the framework that I teach is mindset, the principles of mindset, getting clarity and division, clarity and motivation.

Wilton Atkins:

Then the other thing is, the other big thing is understanding the hidden barriers.

Wilton Atkins:

And that's a huge thing for people.

Wilton Atkins:

We had a lot of big success.

Wilton Atkins:

That's probably one of my more popular pillars that gets breakthroughs for people.

Wilton Atkins:

And then the performance under pressure is a lot more specific to people at the higher levels.

Wilton Atkins:

But so that, that, that piece around the hidden barriers is around the concept of allostasis or cybernetics.

Wilton Atkins:

It's the same concept where that's where people are sort of stuck in a pattern, in a habitual pattern where they aren't pushing themselves out there.

Wilton Atkins:

So if you are only at a certain level with something, you are going to usually be stuck at that level.

Wilton Atkins:

So in order to perform at a new level, for example, a tennis player, you need to have a different behavioral patterns to get better.

Wilton Atkins:

And these behavioral patterns that you currently have are a set point.

Wilton Atkins:

So you're at a normal set point, and it's hard to change that because it's very much driven by our automatic processes.

Wilton Atkins:

So trying to break through and perform at a new level is very challenging.

Wilton Atkins:

So the concept of cybernetics, to try and get somebody from where they are now to perform at a new level, it is a huge breakthrough moment.

Wilton Atkins:

For example, I had a really good, elite tennis player who just wasn't improving, and he trained at the same level, he performed at the same level.

Wilton Atkins:

But in order for him to improve, he needed to understand this concept so that he could break through and do things in a whole new way.

Wilton Atkins:

So I think cybernetics and delving into that concept is huge, is a huge thing that people really need to look into.

Todd:

Okay, so the hidden barriers, people are coming up against hidden barriers, and those are going to be some of the major things that you're able to help people with that are getting them to the next level.

Todd:

It's a big part of something that you teach your overall pillar or framework system.

Todd:

And so how, I guess, are you helping to make people aware of the hidden barriers?

Todd:

How do we, I know that it would be, in my mind, a similar process to the calming down the critical mind, the analytical mind, and getting them to tap into that, that subconscious state.

Todd:

We talked about cybernetics, too.

Todd:

So the way that I understand cybernetics is kind of like a heat seeking missile.

Todd:

All right, so if you want to describe cybernetics at all and these hidden barriers, like unleash, go talk about it.

Wilton Atkins:

Yeah.

Wilton Atkins:

Yeah.

Wilton Atkins:

So heat seeking missile is a great example.

Wilton Atkins:

And another example is, let's say your psychology or your behaviors are like an AC or a heat pump where it has a thermostat.

Wilton Atkins:

So, for example, if you're performing at 20 degrees, just like a heat pump is, or AC, when the door is left open or the window is open and how hot air comes in, the AC is going to turn on because it knows it needs to be at 20 degrees.

Wilton Atkins:

So basically, our behavior is in exactly the same way.

Todd:

So the way that I would see it is like with the AC method.

Todd:

The AC example they're using is someone would be used to performing at a certain level, and maybe they're pushed to perform to a better level.

Todd:

They're reached the next level now through coaching, through practice, through whatever.

Todd:

But ultimately, they end up cooling themselves back down to the normal level that they're at because maybe their self image is still there.

Todd:

Maybe there's some hidden things that are going on that are kind of forcing them to stay at that, at that level.

Todd:

Am I right?

Wilton Atkins:

Exactly right.

Wilton Atkins:

Yeah, exactly right.

Todd:

So what are some of the most common mental barriers that you're encountering when you're working with athletes or clients?

Todd:

And how are you helping these people overcome the challenges?

Wilton Atkins:

Yeah, it is a big topic, Todd.

Wilton Atkins:

So we're talking about mental barriers.

Wilton Atkins:

We're talking about beliefs, which are often subconscious and without addressing these and also identity.

Wilton Atkins:

And that self concept is those hidden barriers.

Wilton Atkins:

So it is the hardest to shift.

Wilton Atkins:

So one way to explain what hidden barriers is is cybernetics or homeostasis.

Wilton Atkins:

So we perform at a level that is the same as what we believe.

Wilton Atkins:

So you only perform as well as with what your identity is.

Wilton Atkins:

So when we really want to change, make true change, we need to change at beliefs and identity level often rather than just like a skill level or, you know, going to a new team and learning a new skill might not be enough.

Wilton Atkins:

We really need to really change beliefs and identity to get that more lasting change.

Wilton Atkins:

And it's not easy to do.

Wilton Atkins:

That is definitely not easy to do.

Wilton Atkins:

There's a really good book out there called psycho cybernetics.

Wilton Atkins:

It was written a few decades ago, but basically, I think Maxwell Maltz is the author.

Wilton Atkins:

He was a plastic surgeon, and he got interested in psychology because of what was happening with his clients.

Wilton Atkins:

So, for example, he would make women, I think he was in California, I could be wrong, but he would make his clients traditionally, stereotypically more beautiful looking to hopefully give them more confidence.

Wilton Atkins:

What he noticed over his years of doing this as a plastic surgeon is none of these or many of these women.

Wilton Atkins:

Afterwards, they still didn't have confidence.

Wilton Atkins:

So why is this go really curious.

Wilton Atkins:

And then he discovered this concept of cybernetics and understanding that the self concept is a cybernetic mechanism.

Wilton Atkins:

So your beliefs on yourself and your identity is cybernetics, meaning it is coming back to a set point.

Wilton Atkins:

So if I get plastic surgery on part of my body.

Wilton Atkins:

And I, in theory, I should be more confident, but if I think I'm an ugly and unworthy person, it's not going to change.

Wilton Atkins:

So you need to work on that side of it.

Wilton Atkins:

It's more important than sort of the more superficial environment.

Wilton Atkins:

Will skill changes?

Wilton Atkins:

It's a lower level of change.

Wilton Atkins:

So now how do you do that?

Wilton Atkins:

It's not easy.

Wilton Atkins:

So I guess pointing out how to find it.

Wilton Atkins:

One of the easiest processes to find it is a hypnotic process, a timeline process.

Wilton Atkins:

So instead of envisioning the future, you can often envision remember any things from the past or limiting decisions from the past that may have triggered this belief.

Wilton Atkins:

So where did beliefs come from?

Wilton Atkins:

They often come from childhood.

Wilton Atkins:

Well, hypnosis, where you can remember a time where a limiting decision may have occurred.

Wilton Atkins:

So if you get into a relaxed state, which most people might not do, remember a time when they were in your childhood home and any, what were people telling you?

Wilton Atkins:

Or what year at school, what were people telling you?

Wilton Atkins:

Or if you have a sibling, what were they saying to you?

Wilton Atkins:

Although sometimes it might be a parent.

Wilton Atkins:

So if you dont tell them what theyre thinking, they will find their own limiting decision.

Wilton Atkins:

If you do a nice hypnosis that they will lead, you will figure out where some of these beliefs actually came from.

Wilton Atkins:

So, for example, it might be, I had a sibling that told me that I was dumb.

Wilton Atkins:

Okay, so that's why.

Wilton Atkins:

That's a cybernetic mechanism that might be serving somebody throughout their whole life.

Wilton Atkins:

Or I had a mum that told me that I was fat.

Wilton Atkins:

There's your cybernetic mechanism for your whole life.

Wilton Atkins:

Right?

Wilton Atkins:

So, because that imprinting phase in childhood.

Wilton Atkins:

So timeline therapy is an advanced technique, but it's quite, quite a compelling technique to find that limiting decision or that limiting belief of where it came from and shining a light on it often allows people to release it and have full acceptance of it.

Wilton Atkins:

And often they'll have a better relationship with family members after it, or whatever, teachers or whatever, accepting that maybe they had positive intentions from what they're saying, and it allowed them to release what this limiting belief was.

Wilton Atkins:

Whatever this that's holding them back now, even as an adult, some people, their whole lives.

Wilton Atkins:

So that's one.

Wilton Atkins:

Yeah, that's really cool.

Todd:

And now that you bring that up, I'll share my own story with the audience, just to give some clarity there, because I had my own powerful experience when I did my NLP certification, which I didn't expect to happen, they told me to, you know, try to let go of the conscious mind and try to see what comes up in the subconscious when it comes to this particular limiting belief I had, which was like, trying new things are scary.

Todd:

It's bad to try new things.

Todd:

It's dangerous to try new things.

Todd:

And so it's like, the fear of failure really is what it was.

Todd:

And so I had my own thing that came up in that moment, which was this moment of when I was, like, six or seven years old, and I had lived in this, like, you know, all black neighborhood.

Todd:

Like, a lot of kids that were bullying me, unfortunately, at the time, they invited me to play baseball, and I thought it was gonna be this cool thing.

Todd:

I never played baseball before.

Todd:

I was really excited to try it out.

Todd:

They give me the bat.

Todd:

They say, hey, it's your turn.

Todd:

Throw the ball to me.

Todd:

I miss, everybody laughs.

Todd:

They throw it again.

Todd:

I miss, everybody laughs.

Todd:

I get incredibly embarrassed and decide, like, I'm never trying new things again.

Todd:

You know what I mean?

Todd:

Like, screw this.

Todd:

And then, like, I didn't realize that I had kept that for so long.

Todd:

And it's crazy that, like, now I'm, like, wondering why.

Todd:

It's like, oh, I'm gonna go do this thing.

Todd:

No, I'm gonna stick where I'm comfortable.

Todd:

I'm gonna stick with what's, you know, familiar to me, because trying new things is scary.

Todd:

Trying new things gets me made fun of.

Todd:

Trying new things equals pain, you know?

Todd:

Yeah, that's crazy.

Todd:

Do you have any stories, I guess, that came up for you that may have helped you to be a better athlete back in the day or have helped you release some things, maybe to become a better father or anything along those lines that came up for you personally?

Wilton Atkins:

Yes, I did.

Wilton Atkins:

But probably something I wouldn't be willing to share, actually, to be here.

Wilton Atkins:

Yeah.

Wilton Atkins:

Yeah.

Wilton Atkins:

Nothing crazy, but, yeah, some for me and for other people that I did.

Wilton Atkins:

I visited my childhood home, which was actually a beautiful, amazing place, had a great childhood, but also not all the information that you get there.

Wilton Atkins:

Some of them you remember certain conversations that might be a long term belief that you have around yourself.

Wilton Atkins:

So, yes, certainly it's.

Wilton Atkins:

Certainly, I had some breakthroughs during that process, and I've had breakthroughs with other people doing that process, too.

Wilton Atkins:

That's held me back, but, yeah, it definitely doesn't hold me back anymore.

Todd:

So we have clarity and motivation as a part of your principles.

Todd:

We've got the values levels that are included in that.

Todd:

We've got the hidden barriers.

Todd:

I know there's one more I'm missing.

Todd:

What other frameworks what other core principles are involved in your teachings?

Wilton Atkins:

Yeah, the next one is performing under pressure.

Wilton Atkins:

So this is more for people that, you know, professional athletes or, you know, someone that has high stakes, so high stakes corporate role that need to be clutch and I mean, everyone needs it, but often this is more relevant for them.

Wilton Atkins:

And we have a whole range of tools that help people perform under pressure.

Wilton Atkins:

So for example, some of the tools around relaxation techniques, helping with someone's focus and attention, techniques that help people visualize the pinnacle moment.

Wilton Atkins:

So when that comes to that pinnacle moment, they've already done it before and they're a bit more dissociated from it so that they don't feel as typed.

Wilton Atkins:

There's a whole range of tools around that.

Wilton Atkins:

In one of the sections that we teach.

Todd:

And so moving forward, teaching these things, you've taught them both in like events as well as in person.

Todd:

Right.

Todd:

And so has it been, in your opinion, a hard process for you to develop this framework?

Todd:

Was it something that's like you've gone through and you've changed it a quadrillion times and you've fought with yourself on what should be included in the framework?

Todd:

And I can only imagine there's like, for me, I've been overwhelmed.

Todd:

I've got all my books behind me.

Todd:

You know, I point to those regularly as a.

Todd:

Sometimes they could be an amazing thing and sometimes they can be an overwhelming thing.

Todd:

You know, I've got so much information I can pull from.

Todd:

How do you come up with your own framework?

Todd:

Is it just through, through the experience, through the expertise, coaching?

Wilton Atkins:

Yes.

Wilton Atkins:

So the framework that I use, I really try to keep things really simple.

Wilton Atkins:

So there is so much information out there, there is so many tools and techniques, but you can identify the different pillars they all fit into.

Wilton Atkins:

So knowing these factors, you know, mindset, there's so many mindsets out there, but the two key ones are knowing that it's possible to change through the growth mindset and having full personal responsibility.

Wilton Atkins:

Those are the two.

Wilton Atkins:

If you can do both of those, it creates the most impact.

Wilton Atkins:

Knowing what's being clear, you need that part of it.

Wilton Atkins:

So it's going to have you give you the motivation, the unconscious stuff.

Wilton Atkins:

So there's just, there's just so many different.

Wilton Atkins:

All the information out there fits into these groups performing under pressure and then the holistic part, communication and relationship outside of the court, outside of the work environment.

Wilton Atkins:

You need to be great in that area too, so you can have a sustainable family life and great friendships and relationships.

Wilton Atkins:

And then the last one is structures and a system.

Wilton Atkins:

So with the structures and system it's like, you know, mindset's not, or skill set and mindset is not that important unless you have structure around it because especially now we have big tech, have the best psychologists in the world trying to distract us.

Wilton Atkins:

We need to have that routine in place.

Wilton Atkins:

So you need to design your environment and your accountability loops.

Wilton Atkins:

So all of these things are locked in place by something solid.

Wilton Atkins:

So I could have the best mindset in the world, but unless I have a routine that I am held accountable to, I'm still going to drift away from that.

Wilton Atkins:

So it's a really simple concept of this framework, but within each of them is a whole range of different tools you could take.

Wilton Atkins:

So I guess I have with all the study that I had done, degrees, different coaching, all the books, the patterns all indicate for me these different key pillars that they all fit into.

Wilton Atkins:

And often when I'm working with somebody, somebody calls me on a quick zoom call and they need help with the challenge this framework will.

Wilton Atkins:

I can coach them as a simple framework pretty much.

Wilton Atkins:

I really haven't had a problem that couldn't be solved with this framework or one of the aspects from this framework.

Wilton Atkins:

So for example, I had a call recently from the, a professional rugby player who was struggling with pressure.

Wilton Atkins:

So they were in a, they were in an overtime game and they were, they were, they got stage fright because that match was in overtime and they needed to score or the game was over.

Wilton Atkins:

So next time play stopped, the game was over.

Wilton Atkins:

And this was a key player, it was a, a fullback.

Wilton Atkins:

They were, you know, one of the most dynamic runners on the team, a key player.

Wilton Atkins:

That need were the ones that needed to have the ball in their hands to score the winning try.

Wilton Atkins:

And, but instead of this dynamic player being, stepping up, putting their hand up and trying to get involved and the player get their hands on the ball to break the line, they removed themselves, they hung back.

Wilton Atkins:

It was like a situation like that.

Wilton Atkins:

Each of these pillars in this coaching framework are important.

Wilton Atkins:

So I literally took them through each of these steps.

Wilton Atkins:

Okay, so what's your mindset?

Wilton Atkins:

Do you have a growth mindset?

Wilton Atkins:

Now, this isn't exactly how I coach them, but I'm just giving you an example how each piece of this framework works.

Wilton Atkins:

Growth mindset.

Wilton Atkins:

If they had a growth mindset, they would realize that there's no failure, only feedback.

Wilton Atkins:

So it's okay if you screw up growth mindset, you're just going to get better for it next time.

Wilton Atkins:

You're just going to get better at performing in these key moments.

Wilton Atkins:

Now, the next mindset.

Wilton Atkins:

Do you have responsibility and agency?

Wilton Atkins:

Because if you had responsibility and agency, you would accept that.

Wilton Atkins:

If you didn't break the line and you did make a mistake, that's okay.

Wilton Atkins:

So you need to work, we need to work on their living above the line, their responsibility and agency.

Wilton Atkins:

So it's the mindset piece at work, values.

Wilton Atkins:

Okay, I work with this person.

Wilton Atkins:

Were you living your values?

Wilton Atkins:

One of the values for this person was contribution and bravery or courage.

Wilton Atkins:

One of their values was courage that you weren't living your values of contribution and courage.

Wilton Atkins:

You weren't contributing to the community and you weren't living the value of courage.

Wilton Atkins:

So they need to be clear on what that was.

Wilton Atkins:

Understanding the concept of those hidden barriers, I go, okay, there are reasons out, a static reasons why I didn't do what I needed to do.

Wilton Atkins:

They needed to work on that piece of it.

Wilton Atkins:

Where are you at in your belief level?

Wilton Atkins:

Do you genuinely believe that you weren't the right person to put your hands on the wall at that time?

Wilton Atkins:

So then we needed to work on that area.

Wilton Atkins:

So, and then specific tools around performing under pressure to get into the right mental state.

Wilton Atkins:

So, okay, how do you get into the right mental state?

Wilton Atkins:

Did you do the prep before it?

Wilton Atkins:

Did you do, for example, some kind of a visualization where you prepared for these types of situations?

Wilton Atkins:

There's an amazing process called the movie theater technique that I take through with certain clients.

Wilton Atkins:

Emdr, beautiful technique, or another simple technique is creating your triggers.

Wilton Atkins:

So, okay, it's over time.

Wilton Atkins:

Once you're triggered, it's going to get you into peak state.

Wilton Atkins:

So that's that framework and then.

Wilton Atkins:

Yeah, so a simple example with that, each part of these pillars applies.

Wilton Atkins:

So there's, I haven't come across a problem yet, and I coach people every day that couldn't be solved from working through this framework.

Todd:

Please.

Todd:

Yes.

Todd:

That makes a lot of sense.

Todd:

I mean, from what I, what I'm hearing is like, yeah, I see it really all kind of coming together, especially with the aspect of having a coach at your side.

Todd:

I think trying to do this by yourself would be incredibly, incredibly hard.

Todd:

So, I mean, I have respect for you who seems like you've done a lot of it on your own, but having that clarity and motivation around your values, what is important to you then overcoming the limiting barriers or the hidden barriers, and then establishing some sort of accountability or systems to make sure that you're really taking those actions and prioritizing your behaviors in a way that supports those values and then understanding how to, like, communicate and have the relationships with people in your life, which I would assume would be some boundary setting as well, of like, hey, these are the things that I decided are important to me, and this is how I'm going to live my life.

Todd:

And I need to communicate that respectfully to anybody in my, you know, surrounding environment to make sure that they understand why I'm living the way I'm living and how it's best for me.

Todd:

But I clearly don't want to be selfish too much to the point where I'm, you know, disrespecting everybody.

Todd:

But I do want to have those things in place.

Todd:

And so to me, I mean, I, we already talked about this before, but I'm very interested in the aspect of accountability and having a system, you know, whether that's personal or with a coach.

Todd:

You know, let's just say that there's no coach in the picture because I like to do that for the audience.

Todd:

It's like imagining that they're at home and they want to hold themselves more accountable.

Todd:

They want to have systems and structure to make sure that their behaviors are staying in line with what they think, at least that their values are.

Todd:

You know, maybe they don't know for sure.

Todd:

Maybe they haven't worked for the coach, but they think their values are a, b, and c.

Todd:

And so they want to align their life and prioritize their life towards a, b, and c, and they want to hold themselves accountable to it.

Todd:

Like, how do you help people maintain accountability.

Wilton Atkins:

As a coach?

Wilton Atkins:

It's easier because then I'll book in a weekly meeting, check in on them, someone without a coach.

Wilton Atkins:

I think you need people in your life that can hold you accountable to your structure.

Wilton Atkins:

So you need to prioritize what you need, what you want to do.

Wilton Atkins:

So schedule in, you know, probably daily exercise, you know, daily resistance training, daily cardio.

Wilton Atkins:

Doesn't have to be in a gym.

Wilton Atkins:

It could be anything.

Wilton Atkins:

You need to prioritize daily friendships and connection if that's what's important to you, or weekly.

Wilton Atkins:

You need to schedule that in.

Wilton Atkins:

You need to actually schedule in daily time with the people that are important to your family, family in your life.

Wilton Atkins:

You actually diarise, schedule that in.

Wilton Atkins:

You need to have any key things that you're working towards, specific goals scheduled in to your calendar.

Wilton Atkins:

So it's as simple as having a calendar and a checklist that someone holds you accountable to.

Wilton Atkins:

That person that holds you accountable could be a friend of yours or a brother or sister, and they are both supporting you but also holding you accountable.

Wilton Atkins:

They need to be on board with what you're trying to accomplish.

Wilton Atkins:

They need to understand that, you know, whatever the dynamic is, that they can't be too hard or too soft.

Wilton Atkins:

And that's a simple structure.

Wilton Atkins:

It's not rocket science having that structure, but you need to schedule in all of the things that are important to you.

Wilton Atkins:

So, for example, there's a rugby team that is really important for them to check in with each other.

Wilton Atkins:

So the relationships and the bonds of the team are important.

Wilton Atkins:

So they actually, it's not just training that they schedule in.

Wilton Atkins:

They schedule in their coffee meetings, coffee catch ups to talk about each other's families.

Todd:

That's cool.

Wilton Atkins:

So, and also, you've got a.

Wilton Atkins:

You can structure in fun.

Wilton Atkins:

So this is where we have fun as a team.

Wilton Atkins:

We go into go to a stand up comedy night.

Wilton Atkins:

So you actually have to design it.

Wilton Atkins:

You actually have that structure in there based on what you want.

Todd:

And so how do you think that you, being a prior athlete, having experiences playing on.

Todd:

I know you did individual sports mostly.

Todd:

I feel like tennis is pretty individual cross country, but rugby is a team sport.

Todd:

So how would you say that you being a prior athlete has helped you to be a good mental performance coach?

Wilton Atkins:

Yeah, it has a lot because I experienced some pretty tough situations.

Wilton Atkins:

And, for example, I remember I was playing indoors in Nebraska in the jewel, in a duel match.

Wilton Atkins:

Whoever won my match, the team's gonna win.

Wilton Atkins:

My coach at the time said to me.

Wilton Atkins:

Cause I was battling it out in a close match against somebody that was pretty similar level to me, but I probably should have been beating.

Wilton Atkins:

I was probably slightly better.

Wilton Atkins:

So it was about three all in the first set.

Wilton Atkins:

And my coach said to me, if you don't come to the net on every single point, I'm taking the scholarship away.

Wilton Atkins:

So it was like, oh, my God, this is like, this is brutal.

Wilton Atkins:

So I've been in those situations where there's a lot of the high stakes, the expectations, scrutiny and consequences.

Wilton Atkins:

You know, I've been in a similar situation to that rugby player in an overtime match.

Wilton Atkins:

When you're the key player and you need to have the ball in your hands, but you're scared to do it.

Todd:

Yeah.

Wilton Atkins:

And with endurance sports, which is a slightly different coaching thing that you need for endurance sports, and I also know that with my cross country background, I know what needs to be done with endurance sports as well.

Wilton Atkins:

So I've got quite a good mix of sports where you need to initiate movement, like a tennis serve versus sports where it's a ten game versus sports that are more endurance based because they all require slightly different tools.

Wilton Atkins:

So, yeah, I can, I definitely empathize with their situations, but to be fair, I don't think you necessarily need to have a background as a competitive athlete to be a great coach.

Wilton Atkins:

It can help, but I honestly don't think you need it.

Todd:

So speaking on individual sports versus team sports, I think that's really cool.

Todd:

Like, we kind of talked about that before as well, about how there's certain sports, like, let's say volleyball or tennis, where there's a lot of time between things to kind of second guess yourself.

Todd:

Even like being up in the batter's box, you're about to bat, you know, there's a lot of time before you actually get that pitch or throw up that ball to hit the serve, you know, when you really kind of have chance to second guess yourself or get in your own way.

Todd:

And so that, to me, is really interesting.

Todd:

But also, like, how might your approach differ from something like that to like a team sport?

Todd:

Like, what would be the major differences there?

Todd:

I guess, yes.

Wilton Atkins:

So even within a team sport, there's different roles within a team.

Wilton Atkins:

So you have your kickers, you have your players that might be.

Wilton Atkins:

They don't have the roles where they need to initiate movement.

Wilton Atkins:

So it's really a case by case situation.

Wilton Atkins:

But I mean, they're all, all of the stuff is relevant.

Wilton Atkins:

Every tool that you do that we teach can be relevant for different situations.

Todd:

Curious, too.

Todd:

Then you, having done tennis and having done cross country, how might you approach a sport where there is a lot of time between initiating an action?

Todd:

So you talked about specifically how it's important.

Todd:

Mental skills are important for those types of sports.

Todd:

And you even mentioned potentially having me come out and enter the world and specifically seeking out those types of sports as, you know, prime for mental performance coaching, you know, so, so how, how do you help people with those time barriers, the time between doing things to kind of get out of their own head?

Wilton Atkins:

Yeah.

Wilton Atkins:

Yeah, that's right.

Wilton Atkins:

Because when there's time to think about things, there's more time for you to get tight and you can't take it away by movement.

Wilton Atkins:

So there's more time to get the yips.

Wilton Atkins:

For example, you're standing over a green and you need to putt for a gold medal or you need to hit par on your last hole to win the gold medal, and you have to stand over there and execute a drive that's a lot harder than executing a drive on the first hole.

Wilton Atkins:

So similarly, if you are kicking a penalty kick or field goal or a kick in rugby, you have your own thoughts to deal with, whereas if you're just running a race, a long distance race, basically there has more the training that you have done prior, has more of an impact on the outcome, has a less of a mental component, it's a different mental component of.

Wilton Atkins:

It's more pushing through pain.

Wilton Atkins:

So can you push through focus to push through pain with those endurance events, whereas with the ones that you need to initiate a movement, it's more around calming the stress response, which we're using the stress response to your advantage.

Wilton Atkins:

So just a really simple tool that we use with that is the one with triggering.

Wilton Atkins:

So you have the structures around your routine.

Wilton Atkins:

You need to create a routine that gets you into a relaxed state that you do even when you are not nervous.

Wilton Atkins:

So when it becomes an automatic process to get you in that state when you're nervous, so that you can execute it in the same way, exactly the same routine, exactly the same functions, and you can have emotional triggers that help you stay relaxed whilst also accepting it and using these principles from the framework as well, just realizing it's going to be there and also modifying it accordingly.

Wilton Atkins:

So, for example, if you know in a certain moment that you are going to be tight, you might aim at a different spot in a situation where the match is on the line.

Wilton Atkins:

I typically get tight here, so I actually need to follow through a little bit more based on the feedback I'm getting in similar situations.

Wilton Atkins:

So just being.

Wilton Atkins:

Having that awareness.

Wilton Atkins:

So self awareness, routine instructors are really simple ways to help in those situations.

Todd:

So an example of, like, a routine or a trigger, be like the free throw, you know, shooter bouncing the ball a couple times, the exact same way every single time.

Todd:

Or a tennis player, player bouncing the ball, you know, so it's like this, is that something that's like, triggering them to a more calm response, something that they've done 100 times, 100 million times, who knows, you know?

Todd:

Is that a good example?

Wilton Atkins:

Yeah, great example.

Wilton Atkins:

Yeah.

Wilton Atkins:

So, free throws, tennis serve, golf putt, kick it, goal, keep the routine the same, you know, and it's.

Wilton Atkins:

It's process orientated rather than outcome orientated.

Wilton Atkins:

So you're focusing intently on the routine rather than the outcome, because that obviously takes care of itself.

Wilton Atkins:

So let's take a specific example.

Wilton Atkins:

If it's tennis serve, bounce the ball, you might visualize the technique and visualize where it's going to go.

Wilton Atkins:

So I'm serving out white ace.

Wilton Atkins:

I can see that in my mind before I do it bounce or do my deep breaths.

Wilton Atkins:

Some people will even add in like an anchor or a trigger, for example.

Wilton Atkins:

They might look up and they might do a little smile so they get themselves in a really relaxed state.

Wilton Atkins:

I think there was an american basketball, female basketball player that did that to get herself really calm when she was in France for the gold medal.

Wilton Atkins:

She's calming herself, remembering that this is, you know, it's just a game.

Wilton Atkins:

In a relaxed state, often a rugby player will do it.

Wilton Atkins:

They'll smile at the goal post, visualize the path in which the ball is going to go.

Wilton Atkins:

Same amount of steps back each time.

Wilton Atkins:

There's their routine.

Wilton Atkins:

So the trigger there was the smile, which allowed them to find that emotional state, to execute the skill.

Wilton Atkins:

So, yeah, working with each specific person to figure out what works for them best and also what works for their technique best as well.

Wilton Atkins:

And knowing the triggers when they are getting tight and what their habits are when they are tight.

Wilton Atkins:

So where they can aim if they're more prone to hooking it, really tuning into that, staying down on the follow through, for example, in terms of like, aligning it with where your current weaknesses are.

Todd:

So can I ask you about your business and kind of go back to now building your business from all these things?

Todd:

You know, it's obviously you're very, very good at this stuff.

Todd:

It's very cool and you love doing it, something that you want to do for a long time.

Todd:

And so how did you go from starting a business and just kind of getting your foot in the door with this stuff to doing it at a high level, doing it with, you know, Olympic athletes and doing it with, you know, these high performers and stuff.

Todd:

How did you go about building your business?

Wilton Atkins:

I guess, yeah, so I think for me personally, so I worked for ten years in corporate roles and enjoyed doing that.

Wilton Atkins:

And as I said, long term, this is what I always wanted to be doing.

Wilton Atkins:

So there are times where I really need to focus on my work because some of them were quite intensive, quite intensive roles.

Wilton Atkins:

So I prioritized that.

Wilton Atkins:

But towards the end of that, I also added in this career as a side hustle.

Wilton Atkins:

So that was for pragmatic and realism, realistic reasons.

Wilton Atkins:

I couldn't afford to go burn the boats and go all in because of my values of needing to accumulate those assets.

Wilton Atkins:

It's harder to get bank lending without the financial records over many years.

Wilton Atkins:

So being a pragmatist, I built it as a side hustle and started doing it with my tennis coaching clients that I would do in the weekends just for fun.

Wilton Atkins:

Started to see it pay off.

Wilton Atkins:

So I was just trialing these ideas, and then after that, I started to run small workshops, invite people in and say, okay, what's resonating?

Wilton Atkins:

What's not resonating?

Wilton Atkins:

Fine tuning my message.

Wilton Atkins:

And, you know, also back then, I was actually formulating what.

Wilton Atkins:

I actually have reduced it since then.

Wilton Atkins:

I had some stuff in there that I don't talk about now because it wasn't as relevant.

Wilton Atkins:

It was super interesting to me, but it didn't meet the need, and it wasn't applicable.

Wilton Atkins:

So back then, I was, like, talking about the evidence, the research, and the neuroscientist, the neuroscience.

Wilton Atkins:

It was like, wow, this is really cool stuff.

Wilton Atkins:

I was like, yeah, it's great, but only 20% of the audience is into that.

Wilton Atkins:

So, example, a wee while back, I went to a conference at a blue collar working event as a keynote speaker, was a coach, and she was.

Wilton Atkins:

She had the same problem as I had back then.

Wilton Atkins:

She gave the whole 50% of her talk on the neuroscience, all of these interesting ideas.

Wilton Atkins:

She was talking about the prefrontal cortex and the parasympic nervous system and breathing, what happens when you breathe and what it does to the stress response in a highly scientific way, which I found amazing.

Wilton Atkins:

The rest of the audience probably not so much, and she forgot to even link it back to how it was relevant to that audience, which was a blue collar company.

Wilton Atkins:

So that's a common trap.

Wilton Atkins:

When you're building a business, it needs to be very simple.

Wilton Atkins:

It needs to be relevant and needs to be applicable.

Wilton Atkins:

So I made all of those mistakes starting out.

Wilton Atkins:

It was awesome for me, but it didn't meet the need, and it was harder to apply to get results.

Wilton Atkins:

So I made those mistakes with those initial workshops, fine tuned the message, came up with the frameworks, and then slowly building that client base, selling the workshops for more money, and then you can build a business from it.

Wilton Atkins:

So, yeah, I think there's an interesting.

Wilton Atkins:

I might have told you.

Wilton Atkins:

I think Todd Herman's story was quite a cool story.

Wilton Atkins:

Yeah, he did it basically.

Wilton Atkins:

He went around 50 clubs and did 50 talks for free in changing rooms, and he talks about the whole.

Wilton Atkins:

He talks about something else, but what an awesome way to fine tune what you want to talk about to see what resonates.

Todd:

And so you're doing these workshops in person?

Wilton Atkins:

Yeah, in person.

Wilton Atkins:

You know, my first workshops were, like, a few people, mainly family and friends.

Todd:

So it's like a hotel, or was it like, where were you doing them?

Wilton Atkins:

Like a.

Wilton Atkins:

I think my first one was like a church and a library.

Todd:

Wow.

Wilton Atkins:

Yes.

Wilton Atkins:

So it's not, it's.

Wilton Atkins:

But you know what?

Wilton Atkins:

That's cool.

Wilton Atkins:

That's fine by me because I understand.

Wilton Atkins:

I practice what I preach around growth mindset.

Wilton Atkins:

You know, where I was at then, it was where I was at then.

Wilton Atkins:

I wasn't at a level where I deserved to have more people.

Wilton Atkins:

I'm responsible for that.

Wilton Atkins:

I just needed to improve.

Wilton Atkins:

So part of the way I improved was also improving my speaking.

Wilton Atkins:

So I started to go and take a lot of courses in public speaking, starting with toastmasters and then paying money to do professional ones.

Wilton Atkins:

So you've got to, you've got to own where you're at and improve to get better.

Todd:

And how did you realize that some of the stuff you were teaching was too logical and not necessarily like emotional enough or story based or practical and applicable?

Todd:

I get.

Todd:

Did someone tell you that?

Todd:

Or was it just like you were starting to look at people that were successful versus people that weren't?

Todd:

Like, how did you realize that?

Wilton Atkins:

I realized it.

Wilton Atkins:

I think I just started to simplify it because they don't need to know this, they need to know what's in it for them.

Wilton Atkins:

And I just really need.

Wilton Atkins:

It needs to be short, sharp, concise.

Wilton Atkins:

They need to know what's in it for them.

Wilton Atkins:

Unless you're a lecturer at a university.

Wilton Atkins:

Take all of that.

Wilton Atkins:

I could take it all out.

Wilton Atkins:

So I think it was a bit more of self awareness.

Wilton Atkins:

Also, I went to a session with another mental skills coach that gave me that advice to say, okay, the common trap for young, up and coming mental skills coaches is exactly what I see.

Wilton Atkins:

They're not simple, it's not relevant and it's not applicable.

Wilton Atkins:

So that's the key.

Todd:

And so when you were working a normal job and taking clients on the side, you know, side hustling and you're starting to work these workshops, was it challenging to balance family life at the time?

Todd:

I mean, I don't know if you had your kids yet, but you had a, had a girlfriend or a wife or whatever at the time.

Todd:

Am I right?

Wilton Atkins:

Yeah, yeah, it is, it is, it is challenging.

Wilton Atkins:

But being clear, having that clarity once again, I'm linking it back to the course because I practice what I preach.

Wilton Atkins:

I knew it's what I valued, my family knew that what, that's what was important, so they supported me.

Wilton Atkins:

So whilst I was busier, there was a little bit more stress on myself and maybe I would, I would sacrifice a little bit of that because I knew that one of my values is growth and contribution.

Wilton Atkins:

So I'm clear on what motivates me, what I want to do.

Wilton Atkins:

So it allowed me to manage that process.

Wilton Atkins:

And I also had skill.

Wilton Atkins:

I also had to develop my skills around communication and relationships with my family life, too.

Wilton Atkins:

So how I communicated with my wife, you develop that skills as part of being a good coach.

Wilton Atkins:

You need to practice what you preach.

Wilton Atkins:

You need to be a good person with the family.

Wilton Atkins:

So it all applies.

Wilton Atkins:

It all made things.

Wilton Atkins:

It all made things more enjoyable.

Todd:

That's good.

Todd:

So we talked about.

Todd:

We've talked about growth and agency a lot, and I kind of want to circle back to how to help someone develop growth mindset and how to help someone develop agency and that responsibility for themselves.

Todd:

Or Chaka Willink would call it extreme ownership.

Wilton Atkins:

Yes.

Wilton Atkins:

Yeah, exactly.

Wilton Atkins:

Yeah.

Wilton Atkins:

So, I mean, there's a theme in a lot of personal development books of agency.

Wilton Atkins:

You look at Jocko Willink, extreme ownership.

Wilton Atkins:

What does that mean?

Wilton Atkins:

That means agency.

Wilton Atkins:

You need to have full responsibility.

Wilton Atkins:

You're not making excuses about.

Wilton Atkins:

Amazing book.

Wilton Atkins:

Exactly.

Wilton Atkins:

He knows it.

Wilton Atkins:

That's his message.

Wilton Atkins:

That's his key message.

Wilton Atkins:

It's the one thing he says.

Wilton Atkins:

It's the main thing that Wayne Dyer says.

Wilton Atkins:

Excuses, be gone.

Wilton Atkins:

Don't make excuses for your life.

Wilton Atkins:

Where you're at now is where you are right now.

Wilton Atkins:

It's up to you to get better.

Wilton Atkins:

So there's all these themes around it.

Wilton Atkins:

You know, empowerment comes by taking responsibility.

Wilton Atkins:

It's a common key belief.

Wilton Atkins:

So, you know, off a lot of new personal development books are regurgitating that same message, that same principle.

Wilton Atkins:

So it comes a point when you, a young person, is ready for that message, where it sound, it kind of just clicks.

Wilton Atkins:

So there's not.

Wilton Atkins:

Most people won't have that many friends and family that's truly in their corner.

Wilton Atkins:

And I don't say that with any pride, but it's true.

Wilton Atkins:

At the end of the day, the only person that is gonna live your life the way that you want to live it is you.

Wilton Atkins:

So if somebody has a friend or family member that really backs them and believes in them, they keep hold on to that person.

Wilton Atkins:

So you got to watch people that are in your corner when you succeed, because those are the people that you want around.

Wilton Atkins:

But at the end of the day, there's very few of those people out there, truly out there.

Wilton Atkins:

So it really comes down.

Wilton Atkins:

It really comes down to the person.

Wilton Atkins:

And that is.

Wilton Atkins:

It's a little bit sad, that belief, but it's also hugely, and it's hugely empowering because it means that if you want to do it, it's up to you.

Wilton Atkins:

No one really cares about your excuses.

Wilton Atkins:

At the end of the day, no one really cares.

Wilton Atkins:

So you're either a victim or you're fully empowered.

Wilton Atkins:

And when you're fully empowered, it doesn't mean you're going to smash life and dominate and win and make a whole bunch of money and be really successful.

Wilton Atkins:

But it means that, hey, if you at least give it a go and you'll be okay with where you are, you accept it.

Wilton Atkins:

And then it gives you the confidence because you have that self acceptance to keep going and trying new things.

Wilton Atkins:

So agency is both a very can be crippling if you're not ready for it, but if you are ready for it and fully embody it, it almost makes you unstoppable because you know that everything that you do, you are responsible for.

Wilton Atkins:

So there's a, I don't fully believe this quote, but it's a very healthy quote to have.

Wilton Atkins:

It's not your fault if you're born poor, but it is your fault if you die poor.

Wilton Atkins:

So obviously there's a lot of social issues that go into that.

Wilton Atkins:

Trickle down, trickle down economics and systematic things like that.

Wilton Atkins:

That's true.

Wilton Atkins:

But it would be more powerful to somebody to have that belief that if it's not your fault if you are born poor, but it is your fault if you die poor, you have a lower starting point.

Wilton Atkins:

But hey, no one's going to help you be successful.

Wilton Atkins:

It's up to you.

Wilton Atkins:

And you know what?

Wilton Atkins:

If you want to change the system, it's up to you to do something about changing the system, too.

Todd:

So have you ever had an athlete then, that perhaps great athlete, but total victim mindset, total blaming other people, blaming the refs, blaming the coach, blaming their parents, blaming whatever, and they're potentially not ready for that mindset.

Todd:

Have you ever come up against that and like, what might you do?

Todd:

I mean, sounds stressful to be like trying to convince someone that they're fully responsible for everything and they're just insistent that, no, they're not.

Todd:

You know, it's this person's fault and it's this person's fault how much you address that.

Wilton Atkins:

Yeah, you know what?

Wilton Atkins:

And it doesn't make me very proud to say this.

Wilton Atkins:

I think a lot of people have this.

Wilton Atkins:

I certainly had this mindset growing up.

Wilton Atkins:

If I, as a young tennis player coming up, so many excuses.

Wilton Atkins:

Like if I, if I was coaching this me 20 years ago, I was like, what?

Wilton Atkins:

I wish I could coach me back then because I had it.

Wilton Atkins:

I had this mindset.

Wilton Atkins:

It's like it's too windy.

Wilton Atkins:

I don't think two players on the court, we both have exactly the same wind.

Wilton Atkins:

What ridiculous.

Wilton Atkins:

And you know what?

Wilton Atkins:

There's so many, even professionals out there complaining about the wind, complaining about the string tension, complaining about our line umpire call and letting it dwell on them being a victim to that instead of taking responsibility.

Wilton Atkins:

Rugby teams blaming the referee fans.

Wilton Atkins:

That's how I know if you listen to a fan, if a bad call happens, you know, if a fan has no agency and the rest of their life, as if they have that same mindset around their sports team.

Wilton Atkins:

So it was blaming and making excuses about their sports team.

Wilton Atkins:

They most likely have that same mindset about their own life.

Wilton Atkins:

So, for example, if you have a bad call in a sports game, yep, that could be a terrible call, right?

Wilton Atkins:

But what can you control with that?

Wilton Atkins:

You can control.

Wilton Atkins:

Did you talk to the referee clearly about your point of view, about why that was a bad call?

Wilton Atkins:

What could you have done to influence the referee?

Wilton Atkins:

Right?

Wilton Atkins:

There's things you could do.

Wilton Atkins:

Did you have these conversations?

Wilton Atkins:

Did you research the referee beforehand?

Wilton Atkins:

What their habits?

Wilton Atkins:

So there's things you can control.

Wilton Atkins:

And often even coaches after the game will blame decisions on the referee, complain about that as an offset for not taking accountability for their own performance, their own coaching performance.

Wilton Atkins:

So, yeah, it's really common, this kind of way of thinking about things.

Wilton Atkins:

How do you fix it?

Wilton Atkins:

Through evidence.

Wilton Atkins:

You need to tell them.

Wilton Atkins:

You need to explain things to them, explain the concept in great depth until they finally understand it and people come to it at different times.

Wilton Atkins:

You know, a young 18 year old might not be ready for it because they're bulletproof.

Wilton Atkins:

So teenagers.

Wilton Atkins:

Teenagers are harder to.

Wilton Atkins:

They already teenagers.

Wilton Atkins:

And I was the same, maybe not open to it might be because of biologically they aren't fully matured yet, but also they have a lot more confidence and they think they know everything.

Wilton Atkins:

So I'm just talking generally, some teenagers are really on.

Todd:

Yeah, but I think that was a great answer because I actually, my last guest and two guests ago actually, he talked about how he kind of goes through with people on like, the controllables, you know, what.

Todd:

What you're able to control and what you're not able to control.

Todd:

And so it sounded to me like that's something that would be potentially helpful in a situation like this from what you just said was like, okay, the ref made a bad call.

Todd:

Well, what's in your control and what's not in your control there?

Todd:

You know, and maybe getting them to realize that more things are under their control than they may have realized and certain things that they're taking, you know, blame for whatever are out of their control, and you just need to let go of those things.

Todd:

And so, like, providing evidence to them seems like a great place to go with that one.

Wilton Atkins:

Yeah.

Wilton Atkins:

Beautiful.

Wilton Atkins:

Yeah.

Wilton Atkins:

I think Stephen Kobe.

Wilton Atkins:

Kobe explained that really well in his book, the circle of control, the circle of influence.

Wilton Atkins:

And it's exactly what you just said.

Wilton Atkins:

You can only control certain things, be responsible for those.

Wilton Atkins:

You can't control it.

Wilton Atkins:

It's okay.

Todd:

And so for.

Todd:

Go ahead.

Wilton Atkins:

Sorry, I'm just going to say in the same approach that I have to growth mindset as well.

Todd:

Yes.

Wilton Atkins:

How do you explain growth mindset is.

Wilton Atkins:

Okay, here's growth mindset.

Wilton Atkins:

Why don't you have a growth mindset now?

Wilton Atkins:

It's not as simple as that.

Wilton Atkins:

You need to provide comprehensive evidence for growth mindset.

Wilton Atkins:

So you're almost kind of like a socratic method to disprove the theory of having a fixed mindset and that someone's skills are genetic.

Wilton Atkins:

So the opposite of a growth mindset is that someone's complex skills are predetermined by the.

Wilton Atkins:

They're hereditary, they're genetically predetermined by their family.

Wilton Atkins:

So if you are an amazing tennis player, it's because your family were great at tennis, or if you're amazing golf player, it's because you were born into it.

Wilton Atkins:

Your family has the gene for golf or basketball or whatever it is.

Wilton Atkins:

So, you know, a lot of people still have, you know, unconsciously still sort of believe this sort of stuff.

Wilton Atkins:

It's like, oh, I'm not a public speaker.

Wilton Atkins:

My family's never good at public speaking, or I'm not an artist or whatever it is.

Wilton Atkins:

Our family's not good at maths.

Wilton Atkins:

So, yeah, it's out there.

Wilton Atkins:

It's in our society.

Wilton Atkins:

For example, some people used to think that women weren't worthy because they basically were intelligent enough to vote, make it.

Wilton Atkins:

Make a form, informed decision to vote in an election.

Wilton Atkins:

Same thing with African Americans.

Wilton Atkins:

People thought they can't.

Wilton Atkins:

They're not allowed to vote.

Wilton Atkins:

They can't have the same rights.

Wilton Atkins:

Why would you not be able to do that?

Wilton Atkins:

Because people had a fixed view about what they were capable of.

Wilton Atkins:

So this is a fixed mindset, and it's not that long ago people thought that way, and it's still there today.

Wilton Atkins:

We're only a few generations on, so you need to provide evidence.

Wilton Atkins:

It was like a fixed mindset is not accurate.

Wilton Atkins:

So I've got a lot of ways that I explain it, but let's say it's a football player that wants to improve their football.

Wilton Atkins:

You could show them some amazing five year old in Brazil, right?

Wilton Atkins:

And this brazilian kidde, the favela, can bounce the ball, juggle the ball on his feet and his shoulders and his head and his knees, like a hundred times in a row.

Wilton Atkins:

He's five years old.

Wilton Atkins:

So, earlier on, in my culture, growing up, it's like, oh, man, you're so talented.

Wilton Atkins:

What, this.

Wilton Atkins:

This kid, you're so talented.

Wilton Atkins:

You got a real gift for football.

Wilton Atkins:

I've worked now with hundreds of children, and I can say I've never coached a talented or gifted child.

Wilton Atkins:

So, for example, at tennis, I've never seen a natural born tennis player, because the children that come to me for tennis lessons or came to me for tennis lessons, what I used to think, or someone used to call their real talented at tennis, they just had a different upbringing up until that age of five or six.

Wilton Atkins:

And so often, like, the rural kids or the kids that have more space outside or the kids that might have done a completely different sport and just had a higher level of coordination, motor coordination and proprioception.

Wilton Atkins:

So because they've done reps, even just through play, they might have a farm where they kick the ball around and throw balls and throw stones into a water trough.

Wilton Atkins:

That kid coming to a tennis lesson with me at five years old versus some other.

Wilton Atkins:

Another kid that's only played video games, it would be easy.

Wilton Atkins:

And this is what society sees.

Wilton Atkins:

It's like, well, Jimmy's so talented at tennis, and old Tom over here, who's the video game kid, he's so uncoordinated.

Wilton Atkins:

It's like, oh, I'm obviously not talented at Tinas.

Wilton Atkins:

So what happens is, with this language, this kid keeps playing, he gets confidence, and confidence from it.

Wilton Atkins:

It's just, it's an ongoing spiral that accelerates.

Wilton Atkins:

And this kid never does sport again.

Wilton Atkins:

So.

Wilton Atkins:

So this is the influence of not nailing growth mindset.

Wilton Atkins:

Like, it's out there, like that's out there in the workplace.

Wilton Atkins:

For example, leadership.

Wilton Atkins:

You are a natural born leader.

Wilton Atkins:

I don't.

Wilton Atkins:

I've never really seen a natural born leader, but people think that some people are talented for leadership.

Wilton Atkins:

Leadership is a skill.

Wilton Atkins:

Anyone can develop leadership.

Wilton Atkins:

You can develop your ability to communicate with others.

Wilton Atkins:

You can upskill your knowledge around the issues, develop your ability to build rapport ability, the skill of think systematically.

Wilton Atkins:

These are skills.

Wilton Atkins:

Another example that disproves growth mindset is golf.

Wilton Atkins:

So, for example, not long ago, there was, I think 70% of the top female golfers in the world were from South Korea.

Wilton Atkins:

So most people would think, are these South Koreans, they've obviously just got their talent, natural gift for golf.

Wilton Atkins:

So people actually generally thought that.

Wilton Atkins:

But if you actually look, it's a cultural thing.

Wilton Atkins:

They start earlier, so they specialize earlier, which has its own issues, specializing earlier.

Wilton Atkins:

But it allows them to produce unbelievable golfers, and they have a whole training academy around it.

Wilton Atkins:

That's why they produce so many amazing golfers.

Wilton Atkins:

So if you think that, if you think that 70% of the top female golfers in the world is because they have a special gene for golf, that there will be somebody that would be hard to convince in the growth mindset, and to be fair, I wouldn't necessarily try too hard.

Wilton Atkins:

People will come to accept it.

Wilton Atkins:

Your job is not to.

Wilton Atkins:

My job is not to change every single person.

Wilton Atkins:

People will come to it in their own, in their own way.

Wilton Atkins:

But if you look around, if you just look around at the evidence out there is pretty overwhelming.

Wilton Atkins:

The cultural, environmental factors that produce, that produce somebody's skill.

Wilton Atkins:

And I think one of the valid reasons why people don't have a growth mindset is because they will look at physical characteristics.

Wilton Atkins:

So they'll say, yeah, well, how come you're not in the Olympics if you don't have a growth mindset?

Wilton Atkins:

How come you didn't win the hundred meters?

Wilton Atkins:

I say, well, growth mindset is not going to allow me to do track and field at the Olympics because there is a huge degree of phenotypic characteristics involved in that, which is genetic characteristics.

Wilton Atkins:

How are you fast twitch, your height, your speed?

Wilton Atkins:

These things are fixed, relatively fixed.

Wilton Atkins:

So this is largely a physical skill, though.

Wilton Atkins:

So when we're talking about growth mindsets, we're talking about learning and improving and developing complex skills.

Wilton Atkins:

We're not talking about changing physical characteristics.

Wilton Atkins:

That's why I don't play in the NBA, because I'm not over six foot five.

Wilton Atkins:

Yeah, well, actually, somebody that's shorter could still play if they develop these skills.

Wilton Atkins:

But I'm not going to be as good as LeBron James in the middle of the basketball court.

Wilton Atkins:

Yeah, he is a bigger body.

Wilton Atkins:

But the complex part of that is if I need a full growth mindset, is that I could easily, if I trained back in the day and developed those skills over time, no reason I can't shoot better than LeBron.

Wilton Atkins:

There's a complex skill, there's no reason I couldn't have developed my handles better.

Wilton Atkins:

So pointing out the difference between the bits that you can change, which is complex tasks and physical tasks.

Wilton Atkins:

So if you apply it to a tennis.

Wilton Atkins:

I have limitations on my tennis.

Wilton Atkins:

I am not going to be able to serve as consistently as a really tall player because it's simple physics and simple geometry.

Wilton Atkins:

They have more height and more angle geometrically to get that ball in the court.

Wilton Atkins:

So they want to serve at a higher serving percentage.

Wilton Atkins:

They have longer levers to get more angular velocity on the ball.

Wilton Atkins:

Yeah, that there is fixed, but what about the parts that aren't?

Wilton Atkins:

How you apply yourself to learn the technique, how you apply yourself to the details of training through deliberate practice, that's not fixed.

Wilton Atkins:

So point out the studies.

Wilton Atkins:

Carol Dweck, in her book, who actually coined the germ growth mindset, talks about it really well.

Wilton Atkins:

You probably know the story around the math study children.

Wilton Atkins:

So there was two control groups.

Wilton Atkins:

One group of children were told that, well, they did a first test and they did a mast test.

Wilton Atkins:

There was a control group, and then there was the group at the other group.

Wilton Atkins:

So what she said was, to this group of kids after they did the maths test, they were praised for intelligence.

Wilton Atkins:

Well, you guys are so smart.

Wilton Atkins:

You are super, super duper smart.

Wilton Atkins:

No wonder you did well on that math test.

Wilton Atkins:

The other group were praised, wow, I love the effort you put in and the perseverance you put in to that mass test.

Wilton Atkins:

So they got different feedback.

Wilton Atkins:

Now, the key bit that both groups were taken to do a second mass test, which was almost impossible that they couldn't complete.

Wilton Atkins:

So the group that was a praise for intelligence, they ended up giving up very quickly because this test was quite hard.

Wilton Atkins:

And the group was praised for effort.

Wilton Atkins:

They developed the disposition that something could be developed, something through effort.

Wilton Atkins:

So they pushed, they tried, they had a growth mindset.

Wilton Atkins:

The group that was praised for intelligence and thought they were awesome and talented, they were like, well, if I can't do it, it obviously means that that has exceeded my ability of talent.

Wilton Atkins:

And actually, that's a good point, because look at the name of your podcast.

Wilton Atkins:

Evolving potential.

Wilton Atkins:

You're, you're evolving your potential.

Wilton Atkins:

You're not, you don't have a fixed potential.

Wilton Atkins:

It doesn't say fixed potential.

Wilton Atkins:

That says evolving potential.

Wilton Atkins:

So the word potential, I just love that you can evolve it.

Wilton Atkins:

You can, you can grow it.

Todd:

Yeah.

Todd:

And, yeah, and I love thinking about it, both on an individual level as well as a societal level, you know, which I know that you're going to be familiar with the story of Sir Edmund Hillary, you know, climbing Mount Everest and so hits home for you.

Todd:

And, like, just things like that where it's like, once we know it's possible, once we know it's possible as a species, as a human, all of a sudden, all these other people can do it, you know, the four minute mile, you know, Roger Bannister, it's like understanding.

Todd:

Like, okay, well, if he can do it, then I can do it.

Todd:

And that is, to me, that is like, the typical evolving potential is.

Todd:

Yeah.

Todd:

How do we get more people to understand that they're capable of more, you know?

Wilton Atkins:

Yeah, exactly.

Wilton Atkins:

Exactly.

Wilton Atkins:

So with your work as a sociologist, you really appreciate that.

Wilton Atkins:

And that's a great point, because at the end of the day, what do we coach for?

Wilton Atkins:

Right?

Wilton Atkins:

We're there to help people be the best that they can be.

Wilton Atkins:

And why do we want to do that?

Wilton Atkins:

Because we want to make the world a better place.

Wilton Atkins:

So if somebody that we coach can go on and change the world for a better place or make their family a better place, that's awesome.

Todd:

Oh, yeah.

Todd:

So I want to talk about two more things I'm curious about.

Todd:

Since we're on the topic of growth mindset.

Todd:

It seems like a perfect segue into the books that you and your wife wrote, because I feel like that's probably a thematic occurrence in those books, and then also any sort of future goals or plan for the mental skills institute and where that's going.

Todd:

So we'll start with the books.

Todd:

You have this idea to write books with your wife and just go from there?

Wilton Atkins:

Yeah.

Wilton Atkins:

So didn't plan to write the books, but I think it was around.

Wilton Atkins:

Having kids is such an amazing thing.

Wilton Atkins:

So being a coach, it's like, man, I really need to give them the best chances as possible and help them have the best mindset as possible or create culture and environments in our house where we have certain ideas and attitudes and beliefs.

Wilton Atkins:

So I thought children's books are really powerful because we ended up.

Wilton Atkins:

We read quite a few books that we weren't really resonating with the messages.

Wilton Atkins:

It was a little bit outdated.

Wilton Atkins:

Some of the stuff was like, witches and monsters and good and evil was like, okay, well, knowing that, you know, those first years are very important, we need to put some good stuff in there.

Wilton Atkins:

So took the ball by the bull, by the horns, and started writing our own books.

Wilton Atkins:

So I thought, okay, we need to have a few different themes in there, not just one theme.

Wilton Atkins:

So we kind of had a bit of a.

Wilton Atkins:

We had sort of two skills around agency, resilience, and then two skills around, like, sort of theory of mind and perspective taking to round them out so they could understand all of that sort of stuff.

Wilton Atkins:

So the first book that we wrote, it was called learn in ancient power.

Wilton Atkins:

And this story is really about theory of mind.

Wilton Atkins:

Knowing that in theory of mind is understanding what somebody else is thinking is different to what somebody else, other person is thinking.

Wilton Atkins:

That's really what theory of mind is, knowing that your model of reality is different to somebody else.

Wilton Atkins:

So it really helps with relationships, even in the schoolyard.

Wilton Atkins:

So I think that was best described in Plato's allegory of the cave, the greek philosopher Plato.

Wilton Atkins:

So I would encourage anyone just to read that because it's really, really quite a powerful story, but just quickly summarize it.

Wilton Atkins:

So what happens is you have these prisoners trapped in a cave.

Wilton Atkins:

They've been in the cave their whole life.

Wilton Atkins:

So that's the only reality that they know inside of this cave.

Wilton Atkins:

But then one day, one of them somehow gets out of the cave and sees this whole reality outside.

Wilton Atkins:

So they see the real world.

Wilton Atkins:

Sun, trees, animals, whole new experience, cities and towns.

Wilton Atkins:

So this person outside of the caves goes back into the cave and explains it to his other two prisoners, and they have.

Wilton Atkins:

They end up killing them because they don't believe what his reality.

Wilton Atkins:

They think he's lost his mind.

Wilton Atkins:

So what that is, is a really good allegory metaphor for what we all happen in our day to day lives.

Wilton Atkins:

We have different experiences that's really different from somebody else.

Wilton Atkins:

So it's quite a profound thing.

Wilton Atkins:

And helping children through that, what somebody else might be feeling or thinking is different from yourself is quite a cool thing.

Wilton Atkins:

And just on that, wouldn't that be great with election season coming up in America right now, instead of just, like, ridiculous sort of talking at each other?

Wilton Atkins:

And it's just assuming that nobody else has any validity in their ideas.

Wilton Atkins:

There's only one true way to think, and the others are wrong, whether you're red or blue.

Wilton Atkins:

That's the.

Wilton Atkins:

That's how your culture right now is structured.

Wilton Atkins:

And to be fair, a lot of other cultures they have, they don't address this simple concept of theory of mind.

Wilton Atkins:

And it's, you're not going.

Wilton Atkins:

America's not going down a good path because of it.

Wilton Atkins:

So anyway, that's a side note.

Wilton Atkins:

The second book is on the agency, believe it or not, because you know that I'm passionate about agency and.

Wilton Atkins:

Yeah, so basically, it's quite a fun story.

Wilton Atkins:

It's about these kids trying to climb this mountain, Ted and Tilly, brother and sister.

Wilton Atkins:

And the first group of people all fail for different reasons and make excuses of why they did it.

Wilton Atkins:

You know, fun kid wade stone issue, all these sort of reasons, making excuses, not being accountable, why they could make it to the top or not overcoming these challenges.

Wilton Atkins:

And then protagonists in the story, Ted and Tilly, they have responsibility, and when they get to the challenge, they overcome it through problem solving and they reach the top.

Wilton Atkins:

So that's about responsibility of climbing the mountain.

Wilton Atkins:

And it's got a second message in that story as well, which is when they did get to the top, it wasn't about success and awards and prizes.

Wilton Atkins:

It was about.

Wilton Atkins:

Okay, I'm actually feeling really intrinsically proud of what I've done.

Wilton Atkins:

So there's two messages in that one.

Wilton Atkins:

The next book is about managing your emotional state, which is very challenging for adults, let alone kids.

Wilton Atkins:

And that's a cool story about how there's children that they're building a hut in a forest, doing free play out in nature, and then something really terrible happens.

Wilton Atkins:

The hut gets broken.

Wilton Atkins:

And managing their emotional state with some quite cool tools, and then they are able to rebuild the hut.

Wilton Atkins:

So all of these stories, by the way, they're not done in, like, personal development logical ways.

Wilton Atkins:

They're in a fun, rhyming narrative so that it's.

Wilton Atkins:

That's sort of user friendly for kids and families.

Wilton Atkins:

And the last book is about emotional intelligence, understanding that every behavior originates from a positive intention.

Wilton Atkins:

So that basically is about empathy and curiosity, helping somebody develop more of a flexible way of thinking about things.

Wilton Atkins:

So, yeah, it rounds out the set, having that agency and resilience, well, as having a really flexible and greater perspective taking.

Wilton Atkins:

And those are four things that are really important to us.

Wilton Atkins:

If I was to write a fourth book for kids, it would be a story around growth mindset, but, yeah.

Todd:

And so how old are your kids now?

Wilton Atkins:

Seven and five birthdays are coming up, and they're.

Wilton Atkins:

They're on a countdown.

Wilton Atkins:

One's 60 days out for his birthday, and one's 18 days.

Wilton Atkins:

They're counting them down.

Wilton Atkins:

So.

Todd:

Oh, wow.

Todd:

Pretty close.

Todd:

And so do your kids.

Todd:

Love these books.

Todd:

Proud of you guys.

Wilton Atkins:

You know what?

Wilton Atkins:

They.

Wilton Atkins:

It's quite interesting, actually.

Wilton Atkins:

They understand the concepts.

Wilton Atkins:

They really do understand the concepts because, you know, like, there's an argument for saying that, you know, young kids aren't ready for these types of messages or, you know, my my kids can articulate and explain to the messages that even, like, when they were four, like, they could.

Wilton Atkins:

They could sell the book to a stranger.

Wilton Atkins:

Thanks.

Wilton Atkins:

They could almost say exactly what I just said.

Wilton Atkins:

They understand it.

Wilton Atkins:

And it helps them have, you know, positive relationships at school.

Todd:

That's crazy.

Todd:

That's crazy.

Todd:

That's so cool.

Todd:

I love the fact that you guys have done that.

Todd:

And do you, do you have a plan to write more currently or is that kind of just taking it, going with the flow and seeing what happens?

Wilton Atkins:

It's not currently because I think for now I'm really focused on building the mutual skills Institute, building that business books take a wee while, not necessarily the writing phase, but also the publishing and the sales phase.

Wilton Atkins:

You don't make a lot of money from books.

Wilton Atkins:

We mainly did that for, for, you know, growth experience and a lending experience.

Wilton Atkins:

You, unless you are on, you know, all Barnes and noble, you aren't really going to get rich from selling books.

Wilton Atkins:

But I wouldn't rule it out.

Wilton Atkins:

I mean, but it's not right.

Wilton Atkins:

It's not right now.

Todd:

And so that's perfect segue then, as well.

Todd:

So what do you see?

Todd:

What are you trying to accomplish with mental skills institute?

Todd:

What are some, some goals you have, you know?

Wilton Atkins:

Yeah.

Wilton Atkins:

Yeah.

Wilton Atkins:

So with the mental skills Institute, we have a few different parts to it.

Wilton Atkins:

So we have bits where we do corporate coaching and help businesses basically create a culture of success and growth.

Wilton Atkins:

So that's, that's a.

Wilton Atkins:

I love doing that work where we help, we help the team.

Wilton Atkins:

We coach the team with some of the principals from our pillars and then allow them to be open to having feedback from each other.

Wilton Atkins:

So when they have feedback from each other, then we then coach them on an individual level, but then we just pass it back on to themselves so they can integrate their own culture themselves.

Wilton Atkins:

So it's improving their own culture from inside out.

Wilton Atkins:

They drive it.

Wilton Atkins:

So we love doing that sort of work.

Wilton Atkins:

But another big focus for us now is our online course.

Wilton Atkins:

So we have online courses on the mental skills institute and we are marketing and selling them and we're in the process of building more courses.

Wilton Atkins:

So our first course is a mental skills coaching course.

Wilton Atkins:

So it's really for leaders and managers and coaches or any professionals that are wanting to level themselves up mental performance, because most managers or coaches really know the strategies and the techniques.

Wilton Atkins:

This will give them a whole bunch of new information that's missing and it will add to their skill set.

Wilton Atkins:

They'll make them more, more valuable, a more influential coach.

Wilton Atkins:

They'll help them progress their career and make a bigger difference.

Wilton Atkins:

But we're also going to layer in more courses as well.

Wilton Atkins:

So there's a lot more courses that we're currently building and we're also potentially looking to bring in some other coaches onto the platform as well, that we'll go to have courses in a different aspect of coaching.

Wilton Atkins:

So that's.

Wilton Atkins:

That's our huge focus for the next couple of years.

Todd:

That's crazy.

Todd:

And so you're.

Todd:

Are.

Todd:

You're doing this full time, then you're able to support.

Todd:

That's.

Todd:

That's awesome.

Todd:

See?

Todd:

That's awesome.

Todd:

It's awesome.

Todd:

You made the transition.

Todd:

Okay, so now I'm curious.

Todd:

Last question here.

Todd:

If anybody is getting interested in mental skills coaching or if anybody listening is interested in kind of dipping their foot in this information, you've listed some books here already.

Todd:

What might be some books or resources or specific areas of research where you think would be really lucrative for someone to kind of get interested in this stuff or to learn more about this stuff?

Wilton Atkins:

Well, I think without being self promoting, I think our checking out the Mental skills institute, we have it quite in a simple way that we can sort of simplify all of the key themes around what we've just spoken about.

Wilton Atkins:

But other than that, that's a great question.

Wilton Atkins:

There's so many incredible books out there.

Wilton Atkins:

I think psycho cybernetics will help you with the cybernetic side of things.

Wilton Atkins:

I think understanding around agency, you know, excuses be gone by Wayne Dyer or Jocko Willink's one you mentioned was really, really great.

Wilton Atkins:

What's the jocko willink one called again?

Todd:

Extreme ownership.

Wilton Atkins:

Extreme ownership.

Wilton Atkins:

Beautiful book.

Wilton Atkins:

And then around growth mindset, this I would.

Wilton Atkins:

The book I'd recommend for that one is peak by Anders Ericsson.

Wilton Atkins:

That would be the top one.

Wilton Atkins:

Other than that, another really good one is bounce by Matthew Syed on growth mindset.

Wilton Atkins:

And of course, Carol Dweck's mindset.

Wilton Atkins:

Incredible book.

Wilton Atkins:

The book on barriers and beliefs.

Wilton Atkins:

I really like the book Magic of thinking big by David Schwartz.

Wilton Atkins:

Yeah, great book.

Wilton Atkins:

And also psycho cybernetics by Maxwell Maltz.

Wilton Atkins:

Incredible.

Wilton Atkins:

Now performing under pressure.

Wilton Atkins:

There's a lot of good books.

Wilton Atkins:

Once again, I recommend our course, but I think there's actually a really cool New Zealand guy.

Wilton Atkins:

His name is Kerry Evans.

Wilton Atkins:

He synchronizes it quite well.

Wilton Atkins:

He has a book, I think it's called perform under pressure.

Wilton Atkins:

Kerry Evans.

Wilton Atkins:

He's a trained psychiatrist and he writes.

Wilton Atkins:

He has a model called Red and Blue Brain, which is basically the logical mind and the emotional mind, and finding the balance between that.

Wilton Atkins:

So that's a nice book around performing under pressure.

Wilton Atkins:

And he has a different tool that he uses, a red blue tool.

Wilton Atkins:

What else?

Wilton Atkins:

And then you have communication and relationships, I think.

Wilton Atkins:

I think upskill in those areas.

Wilton Atkins:

I think some of the stuff that we talk about is really cool in communication and relationships.

Wilton Atkins:

But I also recommend getting out there yourself, training and speaking toastmasters.

Wilton Atkins:

Upskilling.

Wilton Atkins:

Don't be afraid to go to some sort of couples group to leverage off each other to make each other better.

Wilton Atkins:

Those would be, those would be some of the books that I would recommend, I think for it.

Wilton Atkins:

For a mutual skills coach starting out but consume information, take on.

Wilton Atkins:

You can take a note that's perfect and apply it.

Todd:

That's a great, that was a great answer and I'm glad.

Todd:

I'm always happy when someone throws in one I haven't heard of because I haven't heard of this Kerry Evans guy.

Todd:

So I'll have to look that up when we, we get off this call because I'm always curious about new information, you know, different ways people explain things, finding, you know, new and exciting things to help people understand this stuff better.

Wilton Atkins:

Yeah.

Todd:

So where can they find you?

Todd:

Tag your instagram, tag your website, anything that can help people to find you if they want to work with you, if they're interested in your courses, if they're interested in finding of your content.

Todd:

Where can they find you?

Wilton Atkins:

I would just search me on LinkedIn or Facebook.

Wilton Atkins:

My name is Wilson Atkins, obviously, or the mental skill Skills Institute.

Wilton Atkins:

So yeah, even if you have questions, we don't.

Wilton Atkins:

We're happy to give out information or ideas for free, but if you want to work with us, that's okay.

Wilton Atkins:

But we don't expect anything from it.

Wilton Atkins:

We love doing this.

Wilton Atkins:

We're the right fit or not.

Wilton Atkins:

That's okay as well.

Wilton Atkins:

So yeah, I encourage anyone that's curious just to get in contact and start a conversation.

Todd:

Okay, perfect.

Todd:

Hey, man.

Todd:

Well, thank you, Wilton, for being on the show.

Todd:

It's been awesome.

Todd:

We clearly could have talked so much more.

Todd:

You have so much information to deliver.

Todd:

You know, we've already had a conversation prior that was like over an hour.

Todd:

That was super jam packed full of stuff as well.

Todd:

So I'm always impressed with you and your work.

Todd:

Very awesome.

Todd:

Very grateful for having you on the show.

Todd:

Very grateful for everybody watching the show.

Todd:

So thank you for being here.

Wilton Atkins:

No, no, I really appreciate what you're doing is, well, Todd and I really admire your, your depth and breadth of knowledge as well.

Wilton Atkins:

Really insightful questions.

Wilton Atkins:

I think you're doing a great job and some of the best that you've had.

Wilton Atkins:

Really, really interesting to listen to.

Wilton Atkins:

So actually listen to a few of your episodes and some really great stuff out there.

Wilton Atkins:

Actually, recently I was listening to the one that was helping mental skills around, using technology to help people perform under pressure.

Wilton Atkins:

So there's really cool stuff on the podcast.

Wilton Atkins:

So keep up your great work and all the best.

Todd:

Thank you very much, weldon.

Todd:

You take care, man.

Wilton Atkins:

You too.

Wilton Atkins:

See ya.

Next Episode All Episodes Previous Episode

About the Podcast

Show artwork for Evolving Potential
Evolving Potential

Listen for free

About your host

Profile picture for Todd Smith

Todd Smith